Industry Committee on May 10th, 2012

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

With regard to applications, they've increased in volume on a number of different fronts. How is your budgeting of your department? Has your department increased in budgeting over the years? Has it decreased? What is happening in terms of the volume of processing and how it has affected your budget?

[Sylvain Laporte]

First of all, CIPO is not a department. We're an agency of the Department of Industry. We are 100% user-fee based. I don't have a government appropriation.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Your fees are—

[Sylvain Laporte]

They are set, yes. We go through Parliament to raise our fees. We are also a revolving fund, meaning that the fees are set so that we can, for a period of a few years, accumulate net income where at some point the costs will exceed the revenue. It's planned that way. We will burn the accumulated net income and then we will come back for another fee review a few years later. There's a cycle that we go through.

A budget allocation for us is not necessarily as big an issue as it would be for a department. We have the money that we receive from the applicants themselves.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

It's how Passport Canada operates, too.

[Sylvain Laporte]

That is correct.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You did a survey that seems to be of particular value. Who commissioned that survey? Who did that for you? Do you have the appropriate funds for the continuation of the survey? I find that to be particularly helpful from your testimony, but at the same time you identified that it's particularly difficult to do. So it must be an allocation resource....

Who did that for you? Do you have the appropriate funds to be able to commission another? You'd really be able to benchmark once you have that replicated in another couple years or so forth.

[Sylvain Laporte]

We have the resources. Not doing the survey was not a question of not having the resources. It was more a question of the fact that we wanted to concentrate on the innovators with our round tables and get direct face-to-face information from them.

We're not ruling out the possibility of doing a survey shortly after. Equipped with the information from the round tables, we may want to validate with a whole lot more businesses at large than what the round tables will provide. We're looking at the round tables as a very informative way of acquiring information, but then pursuing another means. A survey is quite possible at that time.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Are you measuring—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Sorry, Mr. Masse. We're out of time again.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Just real quick.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Sorry.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Are you measuring your round tables, in terms of results?

[Sylvain Laporte]

We take copious notes. Yes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

That was quick.

Now, on to Madam Gallant for five minutes.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My first couple of questions are very similar to those of my colleague. I'm sure it's just a matter of two minds thinking alike, and not needing to get a copyright.

First of all we've established that when a small company realizes they may have a patentable idea, if they aren't familiar with the process, the company should see a lawyer. They could contact you first; it's just that it will be more complicated.

Will it be less expensive, though, in the long run?

[Sylvain Laporte]

Less expensive in the long run? For sure they're going to save the legal fees, but if they don't get what they're expecting because they don't truly understand the law, they may be shooting themselves in the foot as well.

I'm not sure if I understand your question properly.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

You answered it correctly. They won't receive the benefits of having a patent if it takes too long or it never comes to fruition.

You mentioned round tables. Do either of your offices provide information sessions on how the patent process works? Do you go out to communities?

For example, if I invited you to Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke and I put together a cluster, if you will, would you make a presentation to these people on what they need to do? Some of them are already familiar with the process, but you could expand upon what they may already know.

[Sylvain Laporte]

We have an outreach team who does that. In fact we've been speaking to most of the universities and the technically oriented colleges in Canada.

We also have, with various IP associations, a speakers bureau type of approach. We have canned presentations, such as IP 101, and how to benefit from IP. Either my own staff or staff belonging to the various IP associations can take these canned briefings and give them out. We've been giving hundreds of these briefings per year. It's been quite successful.

We also have case studies that we've prepared for university professors, which they can give in their engineering, management, or law courses. These are cases that will bring the students to a better understanding of the use of IP and the benefits of using IP for an enterprise.

We have quite a bit of outreach, but when you hear that 80% of companies don't know who we are, it's an area where we need to spend a whole lot more time and resources.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Again, my colleague touched on disputes. Is there an impartial international tribunal that presides over disputes involving companies from different continents?

For example, if a U.S. company is accused of unfair market sharing of its intellectual property with, say, a company from the EU, how is it decided which business is in the right? Is it fought in the courts? If there are two ongoing, similar court actions, one on each continent, which court trumps the other?

[Sylvain Laporte]

There's no international court. IP really is a national legislative environment.

[Gerard Peets]

That's absolutely true. The one element is that, under the TRIPS Agreement of the WTO, if a country wasn't living up to its obligations—which is different from one company in one country suing another company in another country—then there are mechanisms under the WTO TRIPS.

[Cheryl Gallant, Conservative, Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON]

Is there an impartial international body that enforces the IP violations, or is it again a matter of winding through the courts?

Let's say a country copycats part of an engine. They take this engine, mass produce it, and send it to the country where the engine was first manufactured. What recourse, other than the courts, does the company have for that company in another country to cease and desist.

[Gerard Peets]

It's the national framework that the patent was issued in, and they would pursue litigation.

In answer to your question on whether there is an international impartial body, the answer is no.