Evidence of meeting #61 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coverage.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
What we're referring to here is the need to bring all the partners together—the federal and territorial governments, the private sector, the municipal sector—to look at a holistic strategy for developing ICT services in the north.
Again, ad hoc funding programs have been very beneficial, but it would be far preferable to address it in a holistic manner.
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
Right.
Do you have any other comments, Mr. Buda? You talked about the cuts in transfers. What cuts in transfers were you referring to?
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
I was talking about a trend over the last 20 years that has seen federal and provincial responsibilities downloaded onto municipalities, and in turn.... It's mainly provincial transfers and territorial transfers to municipalities being cut.
Conservative
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Actually, in the last seven or eight years, starting in 2005, there's been a real turnaround in federal support for cities and communities, mainly for infrastructure investments.
Conservative
John Carmichael Conservative Don Valley West, ON
Yes, and I'd point to the gas tax as one of the key elements.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you very much, Mr. Carmichael and Mr. Buda.
Now we'll go to Madam Sgro for seven minutes.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Thank you.
That was a very good opening. As a former municipal councillor, I came here for that very issue, to fight on behalf of the cities. I spent two years of my first term here doing a report that I know you're very well aware of, the urban report. When I came here, you couldn't even say the word “cities” in the House of Commons. The gas tax and infrastructure and all of that came from the report that I put together.
But a big issue when I did that report...and that was then, and still now. I mean, pressures are pressures. We've got pressures on the cities. We've got pressures here. There are pressures on the provinces. It's a question of priorities. Investing in the infrastructure of our cities is, I believe, critically important for the future of the country. I don't view it as just a city issue; I think it's a Canada issue.
The issue of the rural divide has always been really difficult to figure out answers to. You won't get companies going and investing money if they won't make money on it at the end of the day. We need doctors in rural Canada. We need more infrastructure in rural Canada. Yet it's hard to get those investments.
As this whole issue moves forward and the money comes from the November spectrum auction, should some of that money be set aside to ensure that, where we have smaller communities that are not going to benefit—that you're not going to be able to make money out of—they have access? I mean, that's where the growth will come in those communities as well.
What are your thoughts on that?
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
As Daniel mentioned earlier, we think that governments—federal, municipal—should identify the needs in areas like that, the resources required to meet those needs or close those gaps. FCM's position is that those funds should be allocated from wherever and however they should be.
FCM doesn't usually tell the federal government how to spend the money. We say we think there's a need here. In terms of whether the money should be earmarked, we don't really have a position; that would be up to the government to determine. The bottom line is that if funding is required and there's a rationale for federal support for that kind of an initiative, then it's imperative that we actually develop a program to do that.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
If the federal government doesn't do it, who is going to do it? Bell Canada will tell you that they offer services they lose lots of money on, but if they didn't offer it, who would? Air Canada will tell us the exact same thing. And it makes sense. They're not necessarily making money on some of this, but somewhere you have to set up some sort of condition for winning the auction. Somebody has to make sure that certain things are going to be done, because if you leave it just to the open marketplace, it isn't going to happen.
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
To clarify, I'm not suggesting that FCM's position is that there is going to need to be government funding, core contributions toward building out these networks in areas where the market would otherwise not support that.
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
I would add that it's CRTC policy already that where the market is not able to provide service on a market basis there would be targeted government funding to meet that gap. The federal government's position in previous funding programs, like Broadband Canada, has been based on that principle.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
With regard to the whole issue of roadblocks in some of the recommendations you have produced, aside from various communities being resistant to the towers going up—I mean, you have to admit they don't exactly look too great, so don't look out the window and see them—you have all the other issues that people will come up with about health issues and concerns and so on.
Have you been doing some work on that particular issue, to try to overcome some of those roadblocks from people themselves—education being a part of it as well—so that they understand it? Has FCM been taking a stronger position on this, as far as doing some work on it?
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
I should say personally that I've started to find towers quite attractive because I've spent so much time working on this issue in the last—
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
It's all I see when I drive down the highway.
The reason we got involved on this issue of antenna siting was because our members said a couple of things to us. One, they needed to be notified of towers before they go up, so no more surprises. I'm sure you've all seen on CBC the stories of these 14.9-metre towers that miraculously appear. Of course, it's our members who hear about it, and they don't know what's going on. That was number one.
Number two, regulations that Industry Canada has had in place since 2008 have this sort of loophole that if you're under 15 metres you don't have to have a consultation. We felt that wasn't appropriate, so we now have an agreement that the wireless sector agrees with in full. If a municipality requests that there be local consultation with the municipality, or a formal proposal, as for any other tower, or the final full public consultation, that will happen. That's why we came into it.
You asked the question about roadblocks. A lot of these roadblocks get created when you have a process that doesn't involve all the actors and creates surprises. That's what we have tried to reduce.
Liberal
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
That may be.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
What about the issue of working with the first nations in a bit of a partnership to ensure that they have access?
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
For sure. We're not working on anything that is specific to broadband services right now, but we have a program funded through Aboriginal Affairs and Northern Development to help municipalities and adjacent first nations communities develop shared service agreements, in particular drinking water infrastructure. Shared service agreements permit cooperative approaches to everything, including broadband services. So indeed that's already happening.
There's a real recognition in the municipal sector that where governments can work together to reduce costs and improve services, they should. They've been doing it for years, and there's a growing recognition that it's important. Frankly, first nations communities are, in most cases, being treated the same as another municipality, because if you're government you have to deliver services and you don't have enough money to do it. So it's actually happening, in part through this program being funded through the federal government.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you very much, Madam Sgro and Mr. Buda.
We now go to Madam Gallant for five minutes.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
What number of municipalities with a population of under 10,000 does your organization represent?
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
We represent 2,000 municipalities, which together represent 90% of the population of Canada. I'm going off the top of my head. The top 150 municipalities in our membership are over 100,000. We're just doing the math here. It's about 1,500. The demographics of our members are overwhelmingly rural. So about 1,500 of our 2,000 members are 10,000 or less. They represent a little less than 10% of the population of Canada.