Evidence of meeting #61 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was coverage.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Okay. So what exactly has your organization done to improve broadband coverage to rural municipalities of 10,000 or less?
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
FCM doesn't actually build or fund broadband infrastructure, for instance, but our raison d'être here in Ottawa is to help the federal government, and indeed Parliament, understand how the government can work more effectively with the municipalities, and to identify emerging needs or trends that the government should be aware of and that future programs should respond to.
Going back to the early 2000s, in fact, the period that Ms. Sgro referenced, FCM began advocating for a federal role in supporting the deployment of broadband in rural communities. That led to the first rural Canadian broadband programs, and we have really maintained our focus on that ever since.
As this issue has matured, as the network has been built out, our focus has become more detailed and nuanced, so that it moved from simply building up the network to really moving to the quality of the network. Now that's proven to be the barrier and the challenge in most rural communities. Indeed most Canadians now have access to broadband, but it's how fast. In most large cities, 10 to 20 to 50 megabits per second is normal. When we speak about a new minimum of 5, if you were to get 5 in your urban condominium, you would think your Internet was broken. So we're really focused on that now.
Certainly, the recommendations we have outlined here—our work on the spectrum option and as we move forward the renewal of the programs that have expired or are about to expire—are our focus.
More broadly, we've tried, with the Government of Canada, indeed Parliament, to help the government understand the key role that rural municipalities play in the economic vitality of the country. Some of the recent resource developments in the west have really underlined how critically important it is for the government to support rural communities.
Fifteen years ago, communities in southwestern Manitoba might have been written off as declining rural communities, but of course now they're hosts to massive and major new oil developments as a result of new technology. There is a whole host of examples like that. That's the work we do.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Reference was made to the federal gas tax rebates, which our government made permanent. Did I understand correctly that you stated that municipalities should be able to use the gas tax rebate for any purpose? Or did I misunderstand you?
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
No. Right now the gas tax fund can only be used for four or five categories: roads, bridges, water, wastewater, transit, and some other things, but definitely not broadband. On the other hand, the Building Canada fund is able to be spent on broadband, and indeed many municipalities have chosen to apply for that program to build up broadband resources in their communities.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
It was my understanding that the gas tax rebate was supposed to be a green rebate, in a way, to improve the environment. While it can be argued that the information highway could save emissions, it's still not eligible for that.
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
No, it's not, under the current contribution agreements, which expire in 2014. There's an expectation that the design of that program may be reviewed in the upcoming budget.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
The reason I ask is there's that 1% gap for which the geology or maybe the business case can never be made, but the municipalities see themselves that this has to be done. As you mentioned, the infrastructure dollars have to go towards collapsing culverts and so on before they connect people through the Internet.
Has your organization participated in any science-based research into the effects of the radio frequency fields on human health?
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
No, we haven't. We rely on Health Canada to undertake that kind of research. We simply don't have that expertise.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
So you haven't recommended it or anything?
Conservative
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
It's interesting to note that the standards in Europe on those radio frequencies are much lower, in terms of the thresholds, than what we have here.
Mr. Rubinstein was talking earlier, following up on Mr. Warawa's questions, about the towers and the exemptions.
One other exemption that wasn't mentioned was the one on new equipment going onto existing towers. If a 30-metre tower goes up after a public consultation and then businesses are able to put whatever they want onto it afterwards, without further public consultation...of course, as technology evolves, the equipment being put on it will be much stronger than what was there before.
Do you not think it might have been easier if Industry Canada had just closed those loopholes, instead of having to forge a deal with all the wireless telecoms?
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
We certainly have been active on the issue of antenna siting for the better part of a decade. We provided extensive remarks to a 2005 review of antenna-siting issues, which produced in the end the CPC.
We had clear direction from our members that the Industry Canada regulations were not sufficient. Through our normal advocacy efforts, we're trying to have those issues addressed. Obviously it's a challenging file. We didn't see a lot of progress happening in that area. We're in the business of looking for comments and solutions to the issues that are facing our members, and we had an opportunity to reach a voluntary agreement.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
Congratulations on finding a way around that roadblock.
Speaking of towers, I can also mention, too, that occasionally there is some beauty in them. In Algonquin Park, for instance, there are towers that are designed to look like white pine—
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
On steroids.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
They actually blend into the background. Even in the Niagara region there are those set up on church grounds that incorporate a cross into the actual facility.
Going back to broadband, in your opening remarks you spoke about an absence of broadband, of course, being a barrier to business. Industry Canada came in and was talking about the 99% near ubiquitous coverage.
Do you find those numbers to be accurate, or is there still perhaps a larger gap that exists there?
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
As far as we know, those are the numbers. We have been focusing not on coverage but on whether the coverage is sufficient to meet the demands of users, whether they be public sector, private sector, or consumers.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
So you're saying the coverage is there, but it's not enough.
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
We're saying the minimum standard for connectivity has to continually be addressed. Otherwise you're benchmarking based on.... As Mike said, 1.5 megabits per second in the city would probably not be acceptable for most consumers.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
I've had to share a 5-megabit connection with 300 people in a work camp in northern Alberta, and it's definitely not enough.
Right at the end of our last meeting, Mr. Scott Smith of the Canadian Chamber of Commerce said the most important investment that government can make is in infrastructure.
Would you agree with that statement?
Policy Analyst, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Absolutely.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
But of course the right investments have to be made. What do you think are the most important investments the government can make, say, in the upcoming budget?
Director, Policy and Research, Federation of Canadian Municipalities
Generally, I think I'd say our position is that the order of government that is in the best position to make the most efficient allocation decisions is at the local level. It knows the situation best and it is most accountable locally.
That being said, most municipalities are going to say that investments in transportation infrastructure are the most important for supporting the economy, and it is also the area in which we probably have the greatest needs. We have an infrastructure report card, which will show you at a national level the condition of different classes of infrastructure.
I think as Mr. Stewart mentioned, there is growing interest in and acknowledgement of the importance of broadband infrastructure. It has not traditionally been seen as public infrastructure, and that's a challenge, because it's yet another new responsibility, but it's one municipalities know they have to face.
The types of policies and regulations being discussed at this committee are exactly the kinds of supports municipalities are going to be looking for in order to expand into this area in the future, because they know it's the future.
NDP
Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON
Excellent.
Thanks so much for coming and providing that enlightenment on those issues. It would take me more time to get into the other questions.
Is there anything you want to share in the last five seconds?
