Evidence of meeting #66 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Jean Michel Roy
Corinne Pohlmann  Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business
Paul Temple  Senior Vice-President, Regulatory and Strategic Affairs, Pelmorex Media Inc.
Scott Smith  Director, Intellectual Property and Innovation Policy, Canadian Chamber of Commerce
Monique Moreau  Senior Policy Analyst, Canadian Federation of Independent Business

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.

Welcome to the 66th meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science, and Technology.

We are studying the adoption of digital technology by Canadian small and medium-sized enterprises.

Before we begin, I have a couple of housekeeping things.

First, I'd like to get a motion regarding our present budget for this study. We always make sure there are some margins so that we have enough to cover the study, and it's $6,300 for this particular study.

Can I get a motion in that regard?

Moved by Mr. Carmichael.

All in favour?

(Motion agreed to)

Also, I have the bad news that we now have two clocks again, and of course they are a little bit different. I will be going by the Blackberry time, which is 3:32 right now.

Finally, for Thursday's meeting, the clerk and I have received a communication that Minister Paradis, Minister Bernier, and the officials will only be available for the main estimates from 4:15 to 5:15, which means that our meeting will begin at 4:15.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Hélène LeBlanc NDP LaSalle—Émard, QC

Could we get the officials from 3:30 to 4:15?

3:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

We could try to communicate with them, but right now they're saying that Minister Paradis, Minister Bernier, and IC officials are available from 4:15 to 5:15 for the second INDU meeting on main estimates.

3:30 p.m.

NDP

Hélène LeBlanc NDP LaSalle—Émard, QC

So we're not given a reason, which is a little bit unfortunate. I understand that ministers have busy schedules, but we've had that meeting scheduled for a long time. I find this very unfortunate. It's also unfortunate that the officials will be here with the ministers for an hour, when we had requested an hour with each minister. The officials are always welcome, and we always have a lot of questions, but we are being deprived of our due time as the official opposition to put questions forth on important subjects that matter to Canadians.

I am requesting that we have the officials from 3:30 to 4:15, and then have the ministers do their presentations as soon as they arrive. After that, we can ask questions, as is our duty.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

I will make that request, Madam LeBlanc, and then I will communicate the response to the committee. I hope we will get a positive one.

Mr. Reagan, and then Mr. Harris.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

We've heard a lot over the years from members of the government, as well as others in academia and elsewhere, about the importance of studying the estimates in detail and spending time on them. I agree with my colleague that it's disappointing.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

I have a point of order.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

This is a point of order, isn't it?

We're on a point of order already, Mr. Chairman, it seems to me.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

I won't know until I hear it, Mr. Regan.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

Isn't Madame LeBlanc's comment a point of order? Aren't I already speaking to a point of order?

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

No, I just allowed the dialogue to begin, Mr. Regan.

Just hang on for a second.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Mike Lake Conservative Edmonton—Mill Woods—Beaumont, AB

We have guests here waiting to testify. Perhaps it would make sense for us to reserve the last 15 minutes of this meeting to talk about committee business, so we can hear the guests who came here to testify.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

I'll do that if it continues at any length, Mr. Lake.

Mr. Regan?

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

If you recall, we were also going to invite the minister for ACOA. Do you have any information about her status and when she might be appearing? Do we have an answer from her?

3:35 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Jean Michel Roy

If I may, I asked the minister to appear, and I proposed three dates, the three meetings when the committee will return after the recess. That's the Tuesday in two weeks, the Thursday, and the last Tuesday in time for the estimates.

3:35 p.m.

Liberal

Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS

You haven't had an answer?

3:35 p.m.

The Clerk

No, there has been no reply. I put the request in about a week ago.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Mr. Regan, when we hear, we'll make sure that you're notified as quickly as possible.

Mr. Harris?

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Just to reinforce the point, it's frankly unacceptable for the opposition to have a grand total of 12 minutes to question the industry minister, the minister for small business, and the department officials on the estimates—on the budget that's being released. That's not nearly enough time. It's bad enough that we're getting both ministers at the same time—but then to have the officials crammed into that same period of time as well? That needs to be split off.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

We'll do what we can, Mr. Harris.

3:35 p.m.

NDP

Dan Harris NDP Scarborough Southwest, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Now I'll introduce the witnesses who are here with us regarding our study.

From the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, we have Corinne Pohlmann, the vice-president of national affairs; and Monique Moreau, senior policy analyst. From Pelmorex Media Inc. we have Paul Temple, senior vice-president of regulatory and strategic affairs. And from the Canadian Chamber of Commerce, back with us is Mr. Scott Smith, the director of intellectual property and innovation policy.

Who will be presenting for CFIB?

3:35 p.m.

A voice

Corinne.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative David Sweet

Then please go ahead, for six minutes.

April 30th, 2013 / 3:35 p.m.

Corinne Pohlmann Vice-President, National Affairs, Canadian Federation of Independent Business

Thank you for the opportunity to be here. With me is Monique Moreau, who will assist with the questions at the end.

CFIB is a not-for-profit, non-partisan organization that represents more than 109,000 small and medium-sized businesses across Canada. Our members represent all sectors of the economy and are found in every region of the country.

There's no doubt that digital technology is of growing importance to small businesses across Canada. One of the greatest benefits has been the explosion of the Internet, as it helps to showcase small businesses' products or services as effectively as those of their larger competitors and attract clients from around the world. But there are barriers to their ability to effectively adopt digital technologies that we'd like to raise today.

You should have a slide deck presentation in front of you, which I'd like to walk you through over the next few minutes.

I believe there are two aspects to adopting digital technology. The first is how easily small businesses are able to access the infrastructure needed to effectively use digital technology, and then once they have access, how easily they are able to use that technology in growing their business.

As you can see on slide 2, high-speed Internet is the most widely used form of telecommunication technology by small firms, and will be the focus of our presentation.

As you can see on slide 3, almost two-thirds of small businesses are using the Internet to make purchases online, and almost one-third use online directories or social media to market their business. In fact, all aspects of Internet use, in our 2012 survey, increased substantially since 2009.

But the most impressive growth has been in the number of small firms that have a website. In 2009 about half of small businesses had a website. By 2012 more than 70% did, a 40% increase in just three years. As you would expect, the larger the business, the more likely it is to have a website, as you can see on slide 4. So while virtually all firms with more than 100 employees now have a website, almost 60% of firms with fewer than five employees have one, which is 50% higher than it was in 2009.

As you can see on slide 5, besides using the website to provide information about their business, almost half are actively updating their website on a regular basis, and 21% are actually selling online, which is more than double the 8% that were selling online in 2009. But to many this growth is still not fast enough.

We believe that small businesses do want to embrace digital technology, but there are some significant barriers mostly related to cost.

First, smaller firms want to be able to access high-quality, high-speed Internet services, but just as important is that these services must be made available at a reasonable cost. The best way for these types of costs to remain reasonable is for there to be proper competition in the marketplace.

When they were asked from whom they purchase their Internet services, there seem to be a fairly healthy number of Internet service providers to small businesses across Canada, as you can see on slide 6.

However, when you look at the use of ISPs by region, you quickly realize that access to high-speed Internet for smaller firms is dominated by one or two players in each region, usually the incumbent telephone or cable supplier from that region. With the exception of Quebec and Ontario, other suppliers are not as prevalent, as you can see on slide 7.

In addition, many of these firms charge small business owners more than they charge residents for essentially the same high-speed Internet services, despite evidence that residents tend to be bigger consumers of high-speed Internet than small businesses are. In fact, almost half of those surveyed in 2012 were dissatisfied with the competitive options available in their area, as you can see on slide 8. Of even greater concern is that 55% of rural-based small businesses were dissatisfied with their competitive options in their area.

When we look at data based on whether small businesses are located in an urban or rural environment, 42% of those in the rural areas stated they had only one choice in their area, as you can see on slide 9. Clearly the competitive options for Internet service provider services in many rural parts of Canada remain extremely limited.

Another barrier relates to how they use digital technology to grow their business. Many have said that small businesses are slower in selling their products online. Part of this stems from the fact that to sell online, you may have to think differently about how you run your business, for example, how you manage your inventory, how you accept payments, and how you interact with your customers. However, we also believe that much of this has to do with the cost of accepting electronic payments.

In a study we did for the 2011 payments review, we found the most important obstacle to accepting electronic payments was that the cost of implementing the system did not justify the investment, as you can see on slide 10. In particular, it's the cost associated with processing electronic payments that discourages many from moving in this direction. With the recent introduction of mobile payments in Canada, which will add new players to the payments industry, there's even greater fear that these costs will go up even further.

Another factor for many is concerns with online security, as they feel there's a potential risk of losing customer or business data or having sensitive personal or financial information stolen, for which they become liable. This is especially worrisome for smaller firms that cannot always afford to protect their systems with more sophisticated software.

Finally, another cost factor that discourages many smaller firms from adopting digital technology is the cost of the hardware and software needed to properly take advantage of the latest advances. In 2009 and 2010, the federal government introduced a temporary accelerated capital cost allowance that allowed businesses to deduct 100% of the cost of computers and software in the year purchased. As you can see on slide 11, this was the most used form of government support aimed at encouraging innovation. We found in another survey that more than 60% felt that this measure was beneficial to their business. We believe that such a measure should be looked at again to encourage adoption of new technologies especially among smaller firms.

In conclusion, small businesses want to embrace digital technology to a greater degree but face certain cost barriers that combine to discourage them from adopting technology as quickly as we might like in Canada.

Some ideas to help overcome some of the cost barriers are on slide 12. It includes encouraging more competitive options for high-speed Internet services, updating the code of conduct for the credit card industry, encouraging the creation of more affordable and secure electronic payment methods, and reintroducing the 100% CCA for computers and software to encourage investment among smaller firms.

Thank you very much.