Evidence of meeting #50 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technology.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON
Basically, what we're saying is there is a competitive advantage if you're presenting yourselves, or ourselves as a country, as a safe place.
Vice-President, Manufacturing, Development and Operations, IBM Canada
Right. My comment before was to ensure that you have a security understanding and take steps if there are gaps. As the government, there are a lot of great steps forward but there's a lot of knowledge still to be gained. Once you get satisfied that you're working that very, very strongly, then start to work on the five open areas of the future. If you wait, or say you're not going to do anything, I'm afraid that's not a very competitive picture for our country.
I think this is a very important field. I totally agree that every new area we're working on is opening up data, potentially, but that's why you have to think about security, focus on it, learn about it, implement it, but then move quickly past it. Don't block it.
NDP
Andrew Cash NDP Davenport, ON
The point of the letter these business people wrote in opposition to Bill C-51 was comparing, essentially, the Patriot Act and the rabbit hole that the United States has gone down, and raising concerns that we are going down the same rabbit hole. Do you share those concerns?
Vice-President, Manufacturing, Development and Operations, IBM Canada
I share...anything that's protecting, putting up borders, in the same way I would on free trade. Commerce is being done globally. Every organization, whether they think so or not, is a global company because their customer base, their supplier base, and their competition are coming from around the world. Think of it in that frame of reference. Then I would say you have to figure out ways for yourself to be open on the data side as well in order to compete. That's our take and my take.
Dean, Faculty of Engineering, University of Waterloo
Actually, I had spoken to one of the co-founders of the companies who signed that letter. I read it in the newspapers. I do not know Bill C-51 in detail, so I'm not going to say too much about it. I do not know enough about it.
I asked him, “Why did you do that? Why did you make that point together with the other colleagues?” This is at Vidyard, which is based in Waterloo. The co-founder mentioned to me that it's because that is our competitive advantage. That's why we are growing so fast in Canada, and we're getting a lot of business from Europe and Asia.
I think he feels that it can be managed. It's just that the conversation probably has to happen. We probably have to work on how to manage it. I don't know whether it's all black and white.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
I'm sorry, I tried to give you an extra minute to finish your answer, but we're way over.
Madam Gallant, please.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
I thank my colleague Stella Ambler, the MP from Mississauga South, for allowing me to take her time.
I must mention that Stella recently hosted the nuclear caucus in her riding at Sheridan Park. The business we visited there was Candu Energy. We all know Canada leads the way in non-proliferation nuclear energy. Indeed, we have the science and development for de-proliferation across the world.
One of the byproducts of nuclear energy is tritium. In my riding, Chalk River laboratories, now Canadian Nuclear Laboratories, is working on a low-powered, tritium-based battery. We're hoping that will be disruptive.
I want to thank Stella for her time and mention her riding is key to disruptive technology as well.
First of all, I will follow up in obtaining the answer to the question during which my time ran out. That had to do with our segments of society that are actively seeking employment, both the 50-plus who are way too young to retire, and then our newly graduating classes who lack the skills to fill the positions that are available. They're still smart. They're tech-savvy. They live and breathe these disruptive technologies. How can we work together—academia, business, government—to foster an environment where we can get those people working so that Canada as a whole can become more productive and be one of the leading-edge countries in terms of disruptive technologies?
President and Chief Executive Officer, CEFRIO
First of all, it is true that 50 years is much too young for people to retire.
We have measured the fact that people between 50 and 65 years are the segment of the current population that is evolving the fastest in terms of adopting digital technology. Of course, there was a lag, but there is no gap for individuals. However, starting at the age of 75, there is a problem with the use of digital technology.
In traditional sectors, such as the manufacturing or retail sector, young people are essential, because of the skills they have. For the first time, the young generation that businesses are hiring is teaching 50-year-olds how to become more proficient in digital technologies.
It is essential to understand that we must not abandon anyone. Advanced manufacturers have some cutting-edge technology that young people did not necessarily learn how to use in university, but when someone joins the company, if the work processes are well defined, the technology is very easy to use.
One of the methods we have experimented with is to bring the training directly to the company. We were given a 53-foot trailer. We load all the necessary digital tools in it and we go to the companies to determine the work processes. Age or the ease in using digital technologies are no longer an issue because, in less than 20 hours, we are able to help the people who have a problem.
Often, those people are immigrants who don't understand the processes because they don't have a great command of the language. We work on the ground to determine the processes. Right now, high tech is no longer an obstacle, but a perfectly normal work tool.
Conservative
Dean, Faculty of Engineering, University of Waterloo
I received today some data for Ontario. Let me share that with you.
Ontario university graduates actually have the lowest unemployment rates and the highest employment rates, according to data just released today. Ontario university grads have also the highest lifetime earnings, and 86% of recent graduates are working at jobs that require skills that require university. This is not just about engineering. University graduates overall, over time, are working maybe not in their fields but at jobs that require skills at a university level. It's much higher in engineering—I think this is well known—but the fact is that all university skills are required in the economy.
I'd like to address the question about 50-year-olds who may feel dispossessed by what's happening with our environment. I think there is some fear that this change could impact them and their families. To go back to one of the suggestions I made earlier, I do think we really need to have an ecosystem that's parallel to co-op. Rather than have students go out to work, we need to get experienced experts, experienced professionals, experienced non-professionals, to come back to campus, to be part of the ecosystem, to see what's going on, and to participate in the innovation process.
I think we need to have a two-way movement. We need to bring people in from the 50-year-old age group.
Conservative
Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON
Many of these jobs that are becoming obsolete are not situated close to a university environment where a naturally occurring ecosystem would occur. Mind you, we do have distance learning. In Chalk River, in conjunction with the Canadian Nuclear Laboratories, we have the Deep River Science Academy, which has gone above and beyond being a place to learn about science during the summer. They actually do the distance learning and teach it to different high school classes around the world.
What is it we can do to have these ecosystems in outlying areas as well? Are the universities willing to project their knowledge to clusters outside the beaten path of the 401 corridor?
Dean, Faculty of Engineering, University of Waterloo
Yes, absolutely. In fact, the University of Waterloo has the largest number of online courses in Ontario. We offer courses online completely right now. The access is across the country.
I think with the question you're asking, the ecosystem involves infrastructure, and it's not just about courses.
We've been thinking about this in my faculty. We said we need to bring in people for a month—companies and small businesses—and let the employees come to the campus for a month. We need to open our campus to the rest of Canada, to come in for a month and spend time to see how innovation works and how product development works.
Most of the things happen, we find, when people see opportunities based on seeing other people capitalizing on opportunities. Innovation is like an infectious disease. Once you see it's not so difficult, it's happening and people of all groups are involved, you will overcome that mindset and think it is possible.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you very much, Ms. Sullivan.
Thank you very much, Madam Gallant.
I'm going to take the liberty—I generally never do—because there is one very important question I'd like to have clarified on the record.
Mr. Horgan, you were talking about a different kind of cybersecurity in the sense of not creating a firewall, but having a monitor that's constantly looking at the traffic that's within your network, so if there are any kinds of anomalies then you can address them specifically. Is that going to be quick enough for the kind of cybersecurity we need for personal information, health, and for banking?
Vice-President, Manufacturing, Development and Operations, IBM Canada
As a matter of fact, those organizations, many of the banks, of course, but the government agencies and others, are working with us on that because of the level above.
Why I was even speaking as much as I was is that I was in a cybersecurity U.K.-Canada colloquium that was taking place with their cybersecurity experts, and some of us from Canada on the other side, about two months ago. Unfortunately one of the thoughts was that this is what you do after a cybersecurity attack takes place, this is how you try to recover, like the Tylenol scandal. I thought, “What?” It was amazing to me that that was a general thought, even from the U.K. Thomson Reuters was there as well.
We started to give them this view that this is how a number of other people are doing it here in Canada, and we are taking steps not permeated everywhere. Venus in Ottawa is now a centre of knowledge where people are starting to get the latest in the understanding of how to do this.
I'd say that we in Canada could have a leg up further. If you're going off in your own practices, going to an open Internet somewhere, and trying to put your personal information there, or answering questions when someone says, “Hey, check your bank account. Answer this question and put in your personal information”, then shame on you. That can happen. More education is required.
In terms of systems, to be able to do that thoughtfully, and to have it permeate through your system view of cybersecurity, that is what is required. That's what we have said, that you can take steps. It's not one vendor's view. It's a network of people. I will cite Venus here in Ottawa as one of the leading collaboratives that understands the different steps that are needed.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Seeing these anomalies has to be lightning fast in order to stop an intrusion.
Vice-President, Manufacturing, Development and Operations, IBM Canada
Real time. Not lightning fast, but real time.
I would even go one step further. Predict it. That's where cognitive computing and this analytics.... You don't just look at the past or the present. You ask, “Where is it coming from next?“ It's like policing. Put the police where the next thing might happen before it happens, because you've seen these patterns in the past. That is where many places have started to take this dramatic step into the future. We can get on top of this.
The one thing I'll leave you with to put on the record is that we can get on top of this. We know as much as, or even more than, some of the bad guys do.
Vice-President, Manufacturing, Development and Operations, IBM Canada
Don't lose hope on this, or protect everything by closing down.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you to all of you. On behalf of the committee, we're very grateful.
We've had good panels all along, but I think one of the things you've demonstrated here is some more uniqueness in regard to not only disruptive technologies, but also the great position that Canada has. Yes, there are things we need to do and places we need to grow, but we're doing some amazing things, like taking transport trucks to businesses and that kind of thing. It's extraordinary. Of course Waterloo's reputation is amazing, and so is IBM's.
Allow me one more liberty, Ms. Gagné. One of the things that's fascinating is that Ms. Gagné was a public servant for her entire life, and now she's totally a volunteer. I just found that very fascinating—and you're not an engineer, no, not at all. She got on this network and was able to help someone who did not have the capacity of a limb and now does.
Thank you very much, ladies and gentlemen.
Colleagues, the meeting is adjourned.