Industry Committee on May 3rd, 2018

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

With all due respect, you say you support small businesses, but your government's regulations are changing the definition of small business. You're talking about women entrepreneurs. I had the pleasure of meeting with a young woman, a family woman, from north of Calgary, and her small business is a campground that involves three to five people and operates about six months of the year in the summer. Your government has increased taxes on them by 300%, and has also made those taxes retroactive, going back three years, resulting in a massive tax bill that could shut down this campground. How do you square your support of small business with this damaging policy you put in?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I would encourage this person, who I'm assuming is your constituent, to continue working with your office, but to also work with the minister's office. We want to ensure that programs and services work for those very people, and I welcome the opportunity to speak to your constituent. That's what we're here to do. When we choose public life, we say we want to make sure those voices are being heard. Obviously there are nuances that we need to be made aware of. That's why we make ourselves available, and that's why we have consultations. We want to hear from those very people.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, and I'll pass on my time.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

I wanted to talk about some other stuff, but I think there's another opportunity, so I think I'm going to follow up on this a little bit.

I heard you make the suggestion about following up with the revenue minister. Obviously both of you are rookie members of Parliament, and it's challenging to be thrown into the role of minister right away.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

[Inaudible—Editor] about women.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

No, certainly not. Obviously for rookie MPs it's a challenging role. I was a rookie MP too, and I know what it's like to even learn those things on the job, and to be thrown into a ministerial role is very difficult.

I wanted to give you a compliment because we've been able to work really well together as tourism minister and tourism critic. We may not always necessarily agree on things, and certainly you've had to be the messenger for the government on some things that I found pretty frustrating, but there are times when we are able to work together. I do believe that means you are probably someone who, when something is raised with you, is prepared to go back and take a look at things to see if there's something you may be able to do to be better. That's something I appreciate about you. Unfortunately, I have not found the revenue minister to be the same way. I've raised this issue with her over and over again, as I know a number of my colleagues have, and we continue to get back the exact same talking points over and over again, which are probably written by a bureaucrat, and she hasn't gone back and challenged that. However, I'm hoping it's different in your case, and I believe it probably is.

I know I've raised this issue with you before, and I just wanted to get your sense on this. I raised this issue with you in this committee almost a year ago now, and a recommendation was made by the finance committee dealing with the issue of the campgrounds and the way they're being treated as passive income when they're certainly anything but passive. That was a unanimous recommendation of the finance committee, and it included all parties, and we continue to get the same talking point from the revenue minister that nothing has changed. Clearly that's not the case when we hear stories like we just heard, and I've heard a number of them.

Short of telling them to work with the revenue minister, who I don't think is listening, what else can you suggest as an opportunity for these campgrounds to deal with this issue, so that their businesses survive and don't have the huge new tax bills they are facing?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I appreciate your words, and I appreciate the efforts you've put forward. I'll tell you that I am the voice for small businesses at the cabinet table, and I need to hear what you are facing.

The campgrounds that have had challenges have contacted me, and we've worked closely with the Canada Revenue Agency and with the minister. In my experience, I've had the opportunity to have fruitful dialogue. Does that mean everyone comes away with exactly the answer they want? No. However, it is important that we follow the rules and that the rules work for our job creators, especially in communities where camping is essential.

I have to say really quickly that, with Canada 150 last year, we opened up our national parks for free. We saw more people frequenting those parks than ever before, and there are a lot of opportunities when it comes to our national historic sites as well. If we can be of assistance, I can assure the member and all colleagues, as well as anyone watching, that we want to hear from you and we want to be part of the solution, because we know that they too want nothing different.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Fragiskatos. You have five minutes.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Minister, thanks for being here. I don't sit on this committee but I like to take part when there's an opportunity so I wanted to engage with you today.

April is a great month for me. It's my birthday—

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

It's mine too.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Okay, there we go.

On top of that, we had the lowest unemployment rate since the mid-1970s. Speaking as the son of small business owners, I can tell you that when people are working it means there's more purchasing power. They can go out, buy products, stimulate the Canadian economy. I think it's important. You pointed it out. We've pointed it out as a government, but members across the way, I think, are playing with the numbers and playing with arguments that don't amount to putting forward an accurate perspective.

I want to ask you a question that relates to the main estimates. There is $349 million for the Canadian Space Agency for 2018-19, and I promise you this is a small business question, not a research question. Many Canadians, perhaps many in the opposition as well, will look at that and say that $349 million is a lot of money. They may wonder what exactly that's going toward. In the past, when we have allocated money to the CSA, this government has supported projects that encourage the development of innovative technologies in the Canadian space sector. Many of the businesses in this sector are small businesses. They employ more than 10,000 people on the whole, with revenues in excess of $5.4 billion.

Will that money that has been allocated to CSA in the main estimates go towards these same sorts of projects that encourage the growth of emerging technologies in the sector? Will it support businesses that way? When we look at an investment like this, we wonder where it is going, how it will benefit Canadian society. We've seen how it's benefited in the past. I just want to make sure that continues.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Indeed, I would say in one word, yes, we will continue to see programs like that. We know that the supply chain of big business is made up of small businesses, and we really need to recognize whom we're benefiting. We're benefiting communities and Canadians across the country.

You're right that when we put more money into the pockets of Canadians we're going to see more purchasing power, just like when we welcome more international visitors to our communities we're going to see them supporting our small businesses and our communities. That's how you create opportunities. That's how you create motivation for Canadians to want to do more, because they know they're receiving that return. When it comes to that money, you will see it benefiting communities across the country. You will see it benefiting small businesses. You will continue to see programs such as the ones you referred to.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

That's great because when people hear the term “space sector” they think of some large labyrinth of companies outside of their reach, but these are small businesses in many cases. As I said, they're employing Canadians right across the country, generating revenues in excess of $5 billion, according to recent estimates. That needs to be encouraged and I'm glad to see that the thinking is there.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

They are innovative and they are visionary. I think that's where we're trying to get to. Rather than living in the past, we need to see where the global economy is going, how we create the opportunities for tomorrow, and how we ensure that our young people are equipped for success in the jobs that they create and work in. We want them to be able to gain the Canadian work experience that they need.

That's why we're making investments in programs like CanCode. These young people we are investing in will be our entrepreneurs. They will be our job creators. They will have the tools, resources, and opportunities they need not only to succeed but to compete as well. We know that when it comes to Canadian products and services they are the best in the world. That's why we're also putting a lot of focus on helping our small businesses export to new markets.

We know that when Canadian start-ups have the Government of Canada as their first customer they'll be better able to succeed in Canadian markets as well as international ones. We have made more procurement opportunities available to them through innovation solutions Canada. In budget 2017, there was $50 million to set up the program to ensure that it was able to succeed. It works with 20 departments. We're talking about innovative ideas across the country and Canadians applying these solutions to complex government challenges within 20 departments. I know that's an opportunity creator and it's been really well received.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

We're going to go back to Mr. Richards.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

I want to move to a different topic, but I want to close off, because I didn't get a chance to finish our conversation before.

A little over a year ago, there was a letter that was received by the Canadian Camping and RV Council on that topic of the campgrounds, which was co-authored by you, the Minister of National Revenue, and the Minister of Finance. You all indicated that nothing had in fact changed in regard to these campgrounds. That's not accurate.

What I'm hearing from you is that you want to be collaborative and to be a champion for these small businesses. I appreciate that, and I take you at your word on that. I certainly hope that you'll go back and have a good look at this, and determine for yourself that it's not true that nothing has changed, that there actually has been some change here and that's impacting these campgrounds, and that you will be a champion for them.

I'll certainly be letting them know that they should be in contact with you, and I hope you will keep that promise to them.

Actually, I want to speak about—

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Tourism?

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Well certainly tourism, but specifically related to tourism is the labour. There are obviously some challenges within the industry, specifically in seasonal parts of the year in certain parts of the country with regard to labour challenges.

One of the things I noticed when your tourism vision came out...was it last year?

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

Last year in Calgary.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

There were a lot of similarities to the federal tourism strategy that we had introduced. As you said earlier, much of the work you're doing is kind of carrying on some of the things that were being done under our government. I was appreciative of that.

We had four key themes in our strategy, which were “Increasing awareness of Canada as a premier tourist destination”, facilitating the “ease of access and movement” for travellers, “encouraging product development and investments in...tourism assets”, and the fourth one for us was “fostering an adequate supply of skills and labour to enhance visitor experiences through quality of service and hospitality”.

I noted in your tourism vision that you had three key themes, the first three being the ones I just mentioned, but the labour part, and the supply and skills of it, was noticeably absent as one of those key themes.

I wonder if you could elaborate on why that is, and whether you do or don't see meeting those challenges to ensure we provide those quality experiences to our guests as an important aspect of things.

[Bardish Chagger, Liberal, Waterloo, ON]

I know that we were both at the all-party tourism caucus where Tourism HR Canada, among others, was able to raise these points.

There are obviously issues that we take seriously. When it comes to the temporary foreign worker program, we are definitely doing a review of that program to make sure it is reflecting the industries that need the support of that program.

There is $80 million in 2018-19 and $150 million in 2019-20 to help workers in seasonal industries through federal-provincial labour market development agreements, which will support those employed in the tourism workforce as well.

You might not see it in the vision. The vision was created by provinces and territories. You will see areas that are similar, which is not a bad thing. I think when it comes to the Government of Canada, we represent all Canadians. Some of us choose to be a lot more partisan than others. I believe when it comes to tourism, that is one reason why I think we're able to work together. Everyone is an advocate for tourism. That was created with provinces and territories. It also has the indigenous focus.

What we've done, as a government, since taking office is to make an investment in Destination Canada to return it to predictable funding so that it can work in markets.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Sorry, I'm getting a signal from the chair that I have less than a minute, and I have a follow-up question that I want to ask. I agree with you completely that it's good that we can work together on tourism.

When the human resources committee studied this issue, in the minority report we put forward, there were a couple of things that we raised as ideas. I'd like to hear your thoughts on those.

One of them centres around this idea of the regions that are set up for determining...basically they are the employment insurance regions. One of the challenges is that they're so large, they fail to catch some of the micro economies that exist in tourism. I've pointed out to Minister Hajdu a couple of examples of that in the past.

I want to get your thoughts on that. Is there some way we might be able to target our tourism regions a little better so that we can ensure they have the ability to utilize the program in areas where maybe they need it but the broader area doesn't allow that? The second one is on your thoughts on the creation of a specific stream for tourism in the temporary foreign worker program to meet some of those seasonal challenges that exist, much like with the agriculture industry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

You've left her with no time to answer the question, but—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Maybe you'll allow her.