Industry Committee on May 10th, 2018

Evidence of meeting #112 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was publishers.

On the agenda

Statutory Review of the Copyright Act

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Patricia Robertson Author, As an Individual

Annalee Greenberg Editorial Director, Portage and Main Press, Association of Manitoba Book Publishers

Naomi Andrew Director and General Counsel, Office of Fair Practices and Legal Affairs, University of Manitoba

Sherri Rollins Chair of the Board of Trustees, Winnipeg School Division

Mary-Jo Romaniuk University Librarian, University of Manitoba

Althea Wheeler Copyright Strategy Manager, University of Manitoba

Michelle Peters Executive Director, Association of Manitoba Book Publishers

Dominic Lloyd Program and Arts Development Manager, Winnipeg Arts Council

Alexis Kinloch Public Art Project Manager, Winnipeg Arts Council

Sharon Parenteau General Manager, Manitoba Metis Federation Inc.

Lynn Lavallee Vice-Provost Indigenous Engagement, University of Manitoba, As an Individual

Camille Callison Indigenous Services Librarian, Ph.D. candidate, University of Manitoba, As an Individual

Francis Lord Committee Researcher

3:10 p.m.

Author, As an Individual

Patricia Robertson

Not in libraries, because I was largely meeting one-on-one with emerging writers or doing workshops. There seems to me to be a lot of copying going on in my English department at the University of Winnipeg. I mean, it's not that everybody's relying on digital, but even if they are, there's still a creator of that digital content, and there still needs to be a way to license, to establish a collective licensing regime, whether or not it's Access Copyright, that acknowledges the creators. If we don't have creators, we don't have a culture.

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Yes, I think that's very important.

3:10 p.m.

Author, As an Individual

Patricia Robertson

We need some way.... Everybody else is getting compensated, from the administrators to the lawyers to the printers to you name it. It's always the writers. The number of times writers hear, “Well, just contribute to this anthology. No, we can't pay you, but the exposure....” Well, you can die of exposure, as you know.

3:10 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

3:10 p.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

This is less of a factual thing but more about how you feel. I understand that getting your $1,100 a year previous to that case might seem like change, as you said, and now you're getting $63. I'm not trying to denigrate the importance of that income stream, but do you feel that it hurts you more as a person, your feelings and your integrity, or that you feel your work is being taken from you? It's not about the level of compensation, but rather the very fact that you're not being compensated at all. Is that accurate?

3:10 p.m.

Author, As an Individual

Patricia Robertson

Well, I would say it's both. I mean, it's real money that my husband and I need. My husband is currently ill, so I'm the sole earner in the family. Yes, I think writers across the country feel that it's a slap in the face, essentially.

You may remember back when the Internet got going, there was this very popular statement, “Information wants to be free.” Well, now everybody thinks everything should be free, as though it just emerged out of the ether. Well, it doesn't and it didn't. It's created by writers and other artists, and we need to be compensated.

Thank you.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you.

Mr. Sheehan, you have five minutes.

May 10th, 2018 / 3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Well, thank you very much. Thank you for acknowledging that we're on the lands of first nations of the area, the Métis people as well. I want to thank people for that.

Second of all, of course, “Go, Jets, go.” They're playing tonight.

Seriously, I'm going to ask the University of Manitoba a question. How do you apply and enforce copyright policy for the preparation of course packs again?

3:10 p.m.

Director and General Counsel, Office of Fair Practices and Legal Affairs, University of Manitoba

Naomi Andrew

I'll start a little bit of intro while Althea is coming.

Our course packs are printed at the University of Manitoba on a cost recovery basis. No profit has been made. They are created through the bookstore.

I'll let Althea expand on that. She's our copyright strategy manager.

3:10 p.m.

Althea Wheeler Copyright Strategy Manager, University of Manitoba

Yes. The University of Manitoba relies on our electronic licences, for example, which permit course pack use, and transactional licences, etc., and generally our copyright policy as we produce course packs, and yes, they are all centrally reviewed for copyright compliance.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

How many course packs are there in a year? I'm wondering about last year, in particular, compared to previous years.

3:10 p.m.

Althea Wheeler

Our course pack use is certainly declining. They are still used at the university. In 2018 there were about 29,687 course packs, whereas previously, in 2014, there were over 35,000. The number is going down.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Are they using other means, electronic means, etc.? We've heard from other universities that course packs are going down, but they're using different systems.

3:10 p.m.

Althea Wheeler

Yes, absolutely. The learning management system we have, UM Learn, would be used.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

I'm sorry; which one did you say?

3:10 p.m.

Althea Wheeler

We use something called UM Learn. It's based on Desire2Learn, which you may have heard of before. That's our learning management system. Again, it would be the same situation. We would be heavily relying on our electronic subscription within that system.

3:10 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Do you have a sense of how often your faculty, staff, or students rely on fair dealing exceptions? Are you tracking this activity?

3:15 p.m.

Althea Wheeler

Yes, we have a sense of that. I can definitely say that in course reviews we do in UM Learn, while fair dealing can be applied, it's usually for digital kinds of materials, things that you might find online to begin with, such as reports, etc. That certainly seems to be the highest percentage of fair dealing we see in the learning management system.

Quite frankly, since we have these electronic subscriptions and licences, it's just very easy for a professor to link to something that's already in the library catalogue. There's not as much, say, printing and posting of PDFs.

3:15 p.m.

Director and General Counsel, Office of Fair Practices and Legal Affairs, University of Manitoba

Naomi Andrew

I just wanted to add that we do have a service that we started called Copyright Solutions, which allows faculty members, with respect to their online courses, to come to the copyright coordinator and have their systems reviewed. The copyright coordinator will ensure they are copyright compliant and often recommend alternatives and licensed material that we already have that the faculty member may not be aware is open access. That is a service we offer to faculty.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

In testimony we've heard, Universities Canada said that their members pay more now than ever before for access to copyright material. Is that true for the University of Manitoba?

3:15 p.m.

Director and General Counsel, Office of Fair Practices and Legal Affairs, University of Manitoba

Naomi Andrew

Sorry?

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Universities Canada stated that its members pay more now than ever before for Access Copyright material. Is that true for the University of Manitoba?

3:15 p.m.

Director and General Counsel, Office of Fair Practices and Legal Affairs, University of Manitoba

Naomi Andrew

We don't have a licence with Access Copyright, but we are paying more than ever in terms of acquisitions in general, whether that be print or digital.

3:15 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

That was “to access copyright”, not “Access Copyright”. Sorry.

3:15 p.m.

Director and General Counsel, Office of Fair Practices and Legal Affairs, University of Manitoba

Naomi Andrew

Yes, that's our similar trend. Our copyright acquisition fee increased.