Evidence of meeting #114 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was works.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Christine Middlemass  President, British Columbia Library Association
Susan Parker  University Librarian, University of British Columbia
Rowland Lorimer  Treasurer, Canadian Association of Learned Journals
Kim Nayyer  Co-Chair, Copyright Committee, Canadian Association of Law Libraries
Allan Bell  Associate University Librarian, University of British Columbia
Donald Taylor  Copyright Representative, British Columbia Library Association
Carellin Brooks  Author, university and college instructor, As an Individual
Kevin Williams  Past President and Publisher, Talonbooks, Association of Books Publishers of British Columbia
Jerry Thompson  Author and Journalist, As an Individual
Maya Medeiros  Lawyer, Norton Rose Fulbright Canada, As an Individual
David Groves  Committee Researcher

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Welcome, everybody, to beautiful, sunny Vancouver. This is meeting 114 of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology, as we continue our study, the five-year legislated review of the Copyright Act.

We've been seeing witnesses for a few weeks already. This week we've been on a five-day road trip, in Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, Winnipeg, and Vancouver. It has been an invaluable trip, because we have met with such a diverse group of people who have given us lots of information to contemplate as we continue to move forward.

If you've been following the proceedings, we've divided this up into sections. Each section is meant to help us build our own information and knowledge on copyright. We will be meeting with authors, radio, television, and publishing. It has been quite enlightening.

We're supported, of course, by our wonderful staff. We have translators here, so when you speak, perhaps you could speak a little slowly. Everything said today will be recorded, as well as translated.

Our clerk keeps us on track, and we have two of our three analysts with us today. Our analysts are the ones who will take all this information and help us by doing briefing notes and giving us background information, and at the end of the day, will help us write our reports and our recommendations. We look to our wonderful, magnificent analysts to do that. We have other support staff here as well.

Thank you all very much.

Today we have with us, from the University of British Columbia, Susan Parker, University Librarian. From the British Columbia law association, we have Christine Middlemass, President.

2:05 p.m.

Christine Middlemass President, British Columbia Library Association

In fact, it's the British Columbia Library Association.

I think some lawyers might be unhappy.

2:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Did I say “law association”? It has been a long week.

From the Canadian Association of Learned Journals, we have Rowland Lorimer, Treasurer. From the Canadian Association of Law Libraries, we have Kim Nayyer, Chair of the Copyright Committee.

You will each be given five to seven minutes, if you need it, to do your presentation. Once we go through everything, we will go back and forth with questions.

We'll start with UBC. Susan Parker, you have up to seven minutes.

2:05 p.m.

Susan Parker University Librarian, University of British Columbia

My name is Susan Parker, and I'm the University Librarian at the University of British Columbia, and I'd like to thank you all for the opportunity to speak before you today. With me today is Allan Bell, associate university librarian for digital programs and services at UBC; and Michael Serebriakov, legal counsel in the Office of the University Counsel.

UBC is a global centre for research and teaching, consistently ranked among the top 20 public universities in the world. We are Canadian authors and publishers as well, publishing material through UBC Press and other publications. The UBC library is the largest academic library in British Columbia, and one of the two largest in western Canada. In 2017, our total acquisitions budget was close to $17 million. That is $17 million spent each year on purchasing and licensing Canadian and international content in various formats, from print materials, which comes to about 20% of the total, to various kinds of digital content making up the other 80%.

I am here to reinforce the following message:

We are focused on fairly compensating content creators and their publishers to foster and support the creation of the best resources for our students and faculty so that they may achieve excellence in learning, research, engagement, fostering global citizenship, and advancing a sustainable and just society. These resources are increasingly digital resources, and they provide enhanced educational features such an enhanced content, embedded collaboration tools, and access 24-7.

As the digital industry inexorably grows, paper-based publishers are seeing their industry erode. The international trend is clear. Paper resources cannot compete with digital, and this is independent of fair dealing or the Supreme Court's 2012 confirmation that fair dealing for private studies applies to the educational context. Even before 2012, UBC was buying fewer and fewer paper resources. Our faculty members are distributing fewer paper copies and making fewer paper course packs, and our students are demanding more digital content.

The plight of Canadian authors and publishers is very real. Many of the most prolific content creators are members of our own academy, so we are mindful of the importance of a copyright system that fosters the dissemination of content for the benefit of society and simultaneously creates the right incentives for creators. Eliminating or restricting user rights, or imposing extremely onerous statutory damages for infringement, will not reverse the digital revolution, nor will it restore the viability of the business model of paper-based publishers and their collective agencies.

What it will do is several things. It will increase the costs of an already increasingly outmoded format, which will only accelerate the transition to digital course material. It will hurt authors and publishers as they, too, exercise user rights extensively. It will likely have unintended consequences in the digital sphere where user rights are a necessary counterweight to restricted forms of use that are imposed upon users, including a digital lock that may threaten to keep all content behind a paywall, and the undue bargaining powers that statutory damages will grant to collective societies.

UBC's request is for Parliament to defer action on user rights. There are several important court and Copyright Board decisions that should be allowed to play out now. The market is already developing its own market-based solutions to what may appear to be an intractable problem. For example, large-scale subscription arrangements are being floated like those that have revitalized the music and television industries. Instead, Parliament needs to use this opportunity to support a robust public domain. The public domain refers to the body of works where the author has waived copyright, or where the copyright term has expired. Currently, the term of copyright is the life of the author plus 50 years. To put this in perspective, a work published when the author is age 30, and that author lives to age 90, is protected under copyright for 110 years after its creation. That is more than adequate time for the author, heirs, and publisher to benefit from the work.

Realistically, of course, most copyright works have little or no commercial value—this testimony, for example—or exhausts the commercial value relatively quickly. To support a robust public domain, we urge Parliament to do two things: first, to reject calls to further extend the term of copyright by an additional 20 years; and second, to develop a means by which libraries and archives may empower researchers, educators, and the public to utilize and disseminate what are called orphan works.

Orphan works are works that are protected by copyright, but the current copyright owner is unknown or cannot be found, the author has passed away, or the original publisher is defunct, and it's unclear who has the rights. There is a debate about how to address this issue, and I stand here to ask this committee to have the debate and to resolve to act.

Libraries across Canada are full of important works that demonstrate the richness and diversity of Canadian culture and scholarship. Parliament has the power to create a system that ensures that Canadians can fairly and respectfully tap into a rich source of Canadian content.

In closing, I ask you to please keep your eyes on the horizon and ensure that, whatever you do, you're facilitating progress and innovation rather than seeking to bolster any particular industry or format. The world has changed. We can't turn back the clock.

Thank you very much.

2:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you very much.

From the British Columbia Library Association, we have Christine Middlemass. You have up to seven minutes.

2:10 p.m.

President, British Columbia Library Association

Christine Middlemass

Hello, and thank you for the opportunity to address you this afternoon.

My name is Christine Middlemass. I'm the incoming President of the British Columbia Library Association, the voice of libraries in British Columbia. With me is Donald Taylor, our copyright representative for BCLA and a copyright officer at Simon Fraser University.

Libraries play a key role in the use, dissemination, and creation of copyright-protected works. We empower Canadians in their pursuit of lifelong learning, research, and innovation by preserving knowledge and by providing equitable access to information. The Copyright Act and its exceptions likewise underpin our mission. Libraries support Canadian creators by purchasing and promoting their works as well as by providing services and information resources for their use in the creation of their new works.

BCLA thanks Canada for maintaining the copyright term of life plus 50 years. BCLA likewise is in agreement with the fair dealing and educational exceptions in the act and with the 2012 exception for non-commercial user-generated content.

Kindergarten and post-secondary libraries are hubs for education, as are public libraries through their collections, literacy programs, outreach to new immigrants, and wide variety of community programs, from reading clubs to indigenous programs.

All library users depend on exceptions in the Copyright Act. For example, fair dealing for education or research allows instructors, parents, library patrons, and library staff to make copies for research and educational uses and allows libraries to send articles and other short excerpts to patrons of less well-endowed libraries as part of interlibrary lending. These activities enrich society and make education and lifelong learning a reality for all Canadians.

Many post-secondary libraries and large urban public libraries in British Columbia have makerspaces. The current fair dealing provision for non-commercial user-generated content in the Copyright Act allows library users to experiment and innovate in these makerspaces. Loss of these provisions will constrain their creativity.

B.C. libraries invest heavily in collections for their patrons. In 2016, approximately $29 million was expended collectively within the province of British Columbia on collections, both physical and digital. Definitely, the main increases were our digital collections.

Unlike printed material, digital works, such as e-books and online reference sources, are governed by licences, and all their uses, including reproduction, are governed by these licences. This often means that clauses in a contract override statutory rights in the Copyright Act. Libraries may not be permitted by the licence to lend to another library through interlibrary loans, and library users may not be permitted to print the pages. As these restrictions are barriers for our patrons to education, research, and lifelong learning, BCLA would like to see the Copyright Act stipulate that contracts cannot override exceptions in the act.

Technological protection measures, or TPMs, are also used to limit fair dealing and other statutory rights in library licensed digital resources. In order for libraries and library users to exercise their rights in the Copyright Act, BCLA recommends that the act be amended to exempt fair dealing and other exceptions from the prohibition on the circumvention of technological protection measures.

Digitizing and making available historic materials, such as photographs, postcards, and posters, to a wider public is fraught with copyright implications for B.C. libraries. The uncertain copyright status of orphan works, the fact that the non-locatable copyright owner regime applies only to published works, and the extreme difficulty of tracking down myriad copyright owners prevent cultural institutions from digitizing historic works of significant cultural and historic value to Canadian communities. Therefore, BCLA recommends that the Copyright Act be amended to clearly state that libraries, archives, and museums are only required to remove material if they infringe copyright when they had reasonable grounds for believing that their use of the copyrighted work was for a fair-dealing purpose. They should not be required to pay statutory damages. This change to the provision would protect Canadian educational institutions, libraries, archives, and museums, from being sued for digitizing orphan works in good faith.

According to Statistics Canada, Canadian publishers reported a profit margin of 10.2% in 2016. Canada is also the sixth most lucrative global market for streaming music sales and royalties. As well as being significant purchasers of Canadian content, libraries and librarians have long supported and participated in programs like the public lending right to ensure a vibrant Canadian culture. However, we believe copyright legislation is an inappropriate tool for subsidizing Canadian creators. Rather, BCLA encourages the pursuit of public and private programs, such as the public lending right, to help foster and remunerate Canadian creativity.

We strongly urge Parliament to maintain the amendments to fair dealing and the educational exceptions added in 2012.

Thank you again for the opportunity to speak to you.

2:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you very much.

Next is the Canadian Association of Learned Journals. Dr. Lorimer, you have up to seven minutes.

2:15 p.m.

Dr. Rowland Lorimer Treasurer, Canadian Association of Learned Journals

Thank you very much.

As the chair noted, I am Rowland Lorimer. I'm the founding director of the professional master of publishing program at Simon Fraser University and Treasurer of the Canadian Association of Learned Journals. I appear on behalf of the Canadian Association of Learned Journals, and I thank you very much for this opportunity.

Before I start, I'll add that I'm also the publisher of eight different journals, seven of which are online, open access journals. One has a print component and is open access to the level that is required by the tri-council agencies.

Canada has over 630 scholarly journals with budgets of over $50,000 per title. This amounts to about $30 million of economic activity. About 10% of funding comes from the Social Sciences and Humanities Research Council. The rest comes from professional and institutional support and market earnings in and outside Canada.

The notion of user rights and the inclusion of education as fair dealing are founded on the social behaviour of single readers. They wisely affirm exchange amongst readers, and facilitate the use of modern copying technology to allow close study. The central problem for Canadian journal publishers and most Canadian publishers is that on the legal foothold of an education user right, educational administrators have seized the right to deliver all kinds of mostly unlicensed content, including core learning materials, to students without recompense to authors and publishers. Further, many educational institutions require their instructors to compile content that pointedly avoids triggering the education community's self-defined rules for compensating authors and publishers.

These rules were tested in Federal Court in a suit by Access Copyright of York University, and they were found wanting. The court found that the vast majority of copied content was unlicensed. It mainly came from books, but it also included unlicensed Canadian journal content. In a way, then, the talk of millions spent on licences is mostly irrelevant to the Canadian content found in print course packs and uploaded to learning management systems without compensation. Our suggestion is that the education user right be treated as a self-initiated right of biological persons and as not extendable to institutions or other persons downloading and distributing on their behalf, nor as a means of delivering course content.

In scholarly journal publishing, recompense to authors is not an issue. Authors receive a basket of benefits for publishing their research. For scholarly journals, the issue is that educational administrators are undercutting the resources Canadian journals need to maintain efficient and effective not-for-profit publishing and distribution of Canadian research.

In Canada, journal costs are very affordable, largely because Canadian journal publishing is dominated by not-for-profit organizations. One fairly typical example of a subscription-based journal has 55 Canadian institutional subscribers who pay the journal just $7,000 in direct subscriptions. The journal attracts roughly 200,000 article views per subscription. The cost to Canadian institutions is 3.6¢ per article view, yet the education administrators want more and are taking more without recompense. Rather than supporting the development of Canadian journal publishers for their primary focus on knowledge dissemination, educational institutions are crippling the very sector that is best able to make knowledge available in an affordable fashion.

In short, the seizure of user rights by educational institutions to deliver course content without compensating creators and publishers weakens the generation and communication of ideas. For journal and other publishers, it forecloses on opportunities to build intellectual property-founded businesses, a growth sector in developed economies. More generally, it deprives Canada and Canadians of jobs and opportunities in copyright-based economic activity.

For individual students, it is already erecting unfair barriers to the generation and communication of Canadian knowledge for about the cost of a case of beer per student.

Thank you.

2:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you very much.

Next we will hear from the Canadian Association of Law Libraries.

Kim Nayyer, you have up to seven minutes.

2:25 p.m.

Kim Nayyer Co-Chair, Copyright Committee, Canadian Association of Law Libraries

My name is Kim Nayyer. I'm here on behalf of the Canadian Association of Law Libraries, or CALL. I want to thank the committee for your careful and thorough work in this statutory review process. I do appreciate the opportunity to speak here in Vancouver, and I thank you for undertaking these regional hearings.

Our association has 370 individual legal information professional members representing 210 organizations from various sectors of the legal environment. About 25% of our membership work in law firms; 22% are in courthouse and law society libraries; 21% are in the academic sector, mostly, but not only, in law school libraries; and another 10% work in government libraries. Publishers represent about 5% of our membership, and 12% of our members indicate other affiliations. Many of our members are also authors. I myself am in the academic sector. I'm the director of the law library at the University of Victoria and the associate university librarian for law.

This review is of great interest to CALL and our committee. In fact, our committee was established some decades ago to address copyright amendments of that day. Our members work daily with material that's protected by copyright law and with licensed copyright-protected material.

Today I'm going to address four points: interlibrary loans, fair dealing, overriding licence provisions, and crown copyright.

First, on interlibrary loans, I'll draw your attention to subsection 30.2(5.02) and the requirement that a library, as defined by the act, take “measures” to prevent an interlibrary loan borrower from taking certain actions set out in that section. In practice, we don't find our members to be in a position to meet a positive obligation to enforce loan terms compliance by interlibrary loan borrowers. Some libraries have the technological capability to limit use of interlibrary loaned materials, but many do not. We really aren't practically capable of meeting an onus of accountability for the actions of interlibrary loan borrowers who are in other locations, yet a core function of law libraries is to share resources when they are needed and as law permits. We see this as an important element of access to legal information and therefore access to justice. We suggest that perhaps the addition of “reasonable” before “measures” would meet the policy and legal goal of that section.

Next is fair dealing. I'll just speak briefly on this point. As noted, in the Canadian Association of Law Libraries we have a large range of members, just like Canadian society itself, and in our experience, fair dealing as it stands now generally works well. The current provisions are flexible and responsive. Our view is that the interpretation of what constitutes a dealing that is fair should continue to be left to the context.

With regard to overriding provisions in licences, we suggest that the act stipulate that licence terms not override activities otherwise established by the act as permissible. Occasionally, some of us are able to negotiate out of particular provisions in licences that would override activities made permissible by statutes, such as some aspects of fair dealing or interlibrary loans, but not all of our members are in that position. Licences are often opaque, click-through, or otherwise presented as non-negotiable, or they may be presented to someone less connected with the daily use of the licensed material. The result is often that our members are inadvertently or inappropriately contractually limited from doing what Parliament otherwise granted them the right to do.

Finally, I would like to speak about crown copyright. Last fall an e-petition presented to the House of Commons requested the addition of a section 12.1 that would provide that works covered by section 12 be no longer protected under that section upon being made available to the public. Many of our members support that view. I have to say, though, the question has not been formally presented to my association, so I can't speak in support of it or not in support of it on behalf of the association. Today, however, I'd like to bring to your attention another idea related to section 12. Our view is that public access to the law of all the jurisdictions of the country is central to access to justice.

Our study of section 12, crown copyright and the royal prerogatives, and the origins and purposes of the Copyright Act, suggest that a fair and modern interpretation of Canadian law is that the act in section 12, or in any other section, should not be seen to govern primary law. It may be time for the act to state, whether in section 12 or elsewhere, that primary law, and particularly case law, is not a proper subject matter of the Copyright Act.

The trial court and the Supreme Court of Canada in the CCH v. Law Society of Upper Canada decision touched on this point tangentially, although the particular question was not an issue in that case. Paragraph 35 of the Supreme Court decision is worth noting.

In practice we do treat this as a given, as copying of primary law is necessarily done in the course of our members' work and indeed in the daily lives of Canadians. We reproduce primary law to file in court. Courts reproduce it for carrying out their business. Law libraries and law teachers must reproduce law for the purposes of legal education. Clarity on this would enable other useful activities, and furtherance of access by Canadians to the laws that govern us. Our members and others would then be unhindered in creating tools and resources to enable Canadians to access our own laws.

An example from the U.S., where as I understand it primary law is expressly within the public domain, is the Harvard Law School library's recent digitization of the entirety of published U.S. case law, removing proprietary content from their source books. They've made this content freely available to the public, and they're working with that digitized case law as data to make new and useful presentations of legal information.

My association, CALL, suggests an addition to section 12 to confirm that case law, and perhaps legislation, are not works within the meaning of the act, and so aren't subject to its provisions, or Parliament may simply provide that legislation and case law of the jurisdictions of Canada are in the public domain.

Thank you very much for your consideration of my submissions. I'll do my best to answer any questions you have.

2:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Thank you very much.

We're going to move right into questions, with Mr. Sheehan.

You have up to seven minutes.

2:30 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Thank you very much to our presenters, and for everyone attending this evening. It's great to be in the chair's backyard. We've been taking the proverbial show on the road, and doing that gives us as a committee an opportunity to hear from the various regions in this country.

My first question is going to be for the presenter from UBC, and it will be consistent with some of the questions I've been asking other universities around course packs. I'm interested in knowing how you apply and enforce copyright policy for the preparation of a course pack.

2:30 p.m.

University Librarian, University of British Columbia

Susan Parker

We do have a system that we use. I would actually ask my colleague Allan Bell to come to the microphone to talk about that.

2:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy

Just for the record, would you state your name and your position, please.

2:30 p.m.

Allan Bell Associate University Librarian, University of British Columbia

I'm Allan Bell, associate university librarian at the University of British Columbia.

We go through a rigorous process when we make a course pack. I have to point out that our course packs have been declining quite dramatically, even though we have been applying fair dealing in those course packs to make them cheaper for our students. Over the course of the last few years, the revenues have gone from $1.32 million to only $0.30 million, so $300,000. That's typical for many universities and certainly for ours. Our students are demanding more digital content and more digital experiences.

Selling photocopies to 19-year-olds is something that does not work today and certainly won't work tomorrow.

2:30 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Maybe you can delve a bit more into the electronic usage. You talked about the decline of course packs, but do you have numbers going the other way?

2:30 p.m.

Associate University Librarian, University of British Columbia

Allan Bell

I sure do.

I have a great graph that actually graphs it against our circulation, to also show that print is being used less as digital is being used more.

2:30 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Could you submit that to our analysts?

Can you give a brief description of the graph?

2:30 p.m.

Associate University Librarian, University of British Columbia

Allan Bell

Basically, we've gone from 21% electronic in 2002 to 82% electronic in—

2:30 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

It's flipped.

2:30 p.m.

Associate University Librarian, University of British Columbia

Allan Bell

Yes, it has flipped entirely over the course of time, from 2002 until today.

The other thing is the circulation. Our books are being used less. Indeed, many of our books are being put into a storage facility, where they are safely not being copied.

To go back to the course packs, what we end up doing is using our library licences, many of which allow us to put that into the course pack. We apply fair dealing to that, as well as anything else we license to be able to put it in.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

That's in there as well.

2:35 p.m.

Associate University Librarian, University of British Columbia

Allan Bell

Yes. I have stats on that from the bookstore, if you'd like me to do a little bit more with that.

2:35 p.m.

Liberal

Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON

Yes, it would be great to have some more stats on that as well.

This is a continuation of the line of questions I have been asking. How does the university inform, educate, and enforce its own copyright policy as it relates to the university? For the library and a variety of people, they are very complex policies. We have also heard about having a poster on the wall by the photocopier kind of thing. Could you describe that for us? I see you nodding your head. You obviously have one.

2:35 p.m.

University Librarian, University of British Columbia

Susan Parker

Indeed, we do have the poster on the wall, but that's really not education. That's prophylactic, I guess, really.

A lot of the education we do in the library context at UBC involves a host of things regarding literacy about intellectual property, because not only are students and faculty members creating and using other people's work, but they also then create and use one another's intellectual property.

It's become a suite of information we give to students in one fashion and to faculty members in another, in their appropriate context. Students are specifically instructed by librarians about what is and is not fair dealing in Canada so that they understand exactly what they're doing when they are violating that concept or not complying to it.

What we express is that the library is an exemplar of using fair dealing properly and that we can explain it to them and show them to do it because they themselves are creating their own content and want that to be treated the same way.

I would say it's an iterative process with students over time, because they're with us for a few years. As they progress in their studies, it may be more related to the particular field of study they're working on.

With faculty members it's an ongoing effort. You don't get them as much or as often, so sometimes you start from zero every time. I think, however, that our faculty understand what the library's policies are. We explain them, and we make it very easy for them to comply by providing staff members to do all the work for them in educating them about that process.