Industry Committee on May 11th, 2018

[Susan Parker]

We're paying Access Copyright when it's appropriate, when the material requested for a course pack comes from material that we need to negotiate payment for. In other words, if a faculty member is creating a course pack that includes a printed work or a chapter or more from a printed work that requires copyright permission, that's when we would pay Access Copyright.

However, as others have mentioned, there are materials that the Access Copyright licence doesn't cover. The whole reason course packs are disappearing is that we have licences for digital material that allow us to include them in the reserve system so that we're not creating as many course packs. Fewer and fewer people are even asking for course packs or creating them. As Allan Bell mentioned earlier, students really don't want them, either.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

In other words, only certain material is available that Access Copyright has and that you would have to pay Access Copyright for, and that's what you're doing.

[Susan Parker]

Right. That's what I'm trying to say. Thank you.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

We've heard from other universities that they don't pay Access Copyright at all. They have opted out of the licence, and that's it, essentially.

[Susan Parker]

Well, it depends on the copyright holder. We try when we can. As Mr. Bell explained, we have a system and a number of staff devoted solely to the purpose of trying to find out who owns the copyright, and we'll negotiate either a permission or a payment, depending. That may go directly to the copyright holder or to Access Copyright. We haven't stopped dealing with Access Copyright, to my knowledge.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Mr. Bell said that you opted out in 2011. However, you still have a relationship. What did you opt out of in 2011, then?

[Allan Bell]

We opted out of the blanket licence.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

However, you still have this relationship.

[Allan Bell]

What we end up doing is using our licences in the course packs or in the e-reserve system. For anything we have to transaction license, we have a number of options, including the CCC in the United States. In the case of course packs, it's convenient to do it in the context of Access Copyright.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Is that because you can get it only from Access Copyright?

[Allan Bell]

It's convenient to get that licence from Access Copyright, yes.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

You said that the tariffs were essentially the reason that you opted out of the collective licence. Are these more expensive? Do you moan and groan when you have to go to Access Copyright to get these things? What is the decision on that?

[Allan Bell]

Do you mean on how we actually do course packs, or are you talking more about the blanket licence?

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

I mean how you do course packs. I guess your dealings with Access Copyright are what I'm trying to get to the bottom of.

[Allan Bell]

Essentially, it's what I just said. We have licences that allow us to put in things in the context of course packs, and then we have a number of options, including fair dealing, to make the course packs cheaper for students. In the case where we do need a transactional licence, we have an option for where we get those licences, and one of those options is still Access Copyright.

Is that clear?

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

It's getting a little more clear. I apologize. We're trying to figure this out as we go.

What would be the regularity of this? Is it kind of once every five years that you're dealing with Access Copyright?

[Allan Bell]

I'm not sure about that. I would need to go to the bookstore data. I can do that with your analyst to get some more there.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Okay. Sure.

I do want to move on quickly to a couple of other issues, if we could.

We're missing our good friend from the New Democratic Party, Brian Masse. He asks everybody about their dealings with the Copyright Board. I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity here in British Columbia to ask that question.

We'll go quickly around the table, maybe starting with you, Ms. Middlemass. What are your thoughts on the Copyright Board? I think we'll start with Mr. Lorimer first, then, if that's okay.

[Christine Middlemass]

Sure.

[Dr. Rowland Lorimer]

Our dealings with the Copyright Board have been very limited, but we believe it makes good judgments and those judgments should be respected.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Ms. Nayyer.

[Kim Nayyer]

I don't have any dealings with the Copyright Board to report. I have heard reports from others who have interacted with or had proceedings before the Copyright Board that processes might take a long time, but I personally don't have anything to say on behalf of CALL or the University of Victoria.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Excellent.

Mr. Taylor.

[Donald Taylor]

There are two areas of the Copyright Board that impact libraries. One is the speed of tariff decisions, which is quite slow at the Copyright Board. We would like to see that sped up. If it can't be sped up, then at least have it be non-retroactive so that when the tariff is approved it becomes effective. The other issue would just be to expedite the non-locatable copyright owner regime. That's a pretty slow and cumbersome process.

[Matt Jeneroux, Conservative, Edmonton Riverbend, AB]

Ms. Parker.