Evidence of meeting #119 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was materials.
A video is available from Parliament.
Special Advisor, Copyright, Canadian Council of Archives
They're different, but the reality is that when you're using copyright, it's the place where you are using the material whose laws apply.
Special Advisor, Copyright, Canadian Council of Archives
If you're using the material in Canada, you have to follow the rules in Canada whether you access it from the U.S. or you access it from Canada. I can't see the way that would be an advantage.
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
Thank you very much.
We're going to move to Mr. Lloyd.
You have five minutes, please.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for coming today.
My first question is for you, Ms. Marrelli. You brought up a good example, a CD that is deteriorating. You were saying that a change in the law to allow you to circumvent a TPM is the solution.
Is there the technology out there to circumvent that law?
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
You've said that you're not able to speak to the owner of the copyright for what reason?
Special Advisor, Copyright, Canadian Council of Archives
Sometimes you can't. Sometimes you can't reach them. Sometimes you don't know who they are.
In this case, it was a group that came together and then dispersed.
Conservative
Special Advisor, Copyright, Canadian Council of Archives
It's an orphaned work, yes.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Would you say that we could make a distinction between orphaned works and non-orphaned works? Should we be able to circumvent a TPM where the copyright holder is explicitly against the circumvention of that?
Special Advisor, Copyright, Canadian Council of Archives
It would be one way to go, but the reality is if you have the right to do it in the act, what's the problem with saying you can do it without going through a whole rigmarole? We don't have to do anything for materials that are not under digital locks. Why is suddenly circumventing a digital lock an issue when you already have the right to perform the act?
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Thank you.
My next question is for Ms. Peets. It's more simple. I think it's straightforward.
If copyright were better and more effectively enforced and authors and publishers received the royalties that they believe they're entitled to from educational institutions, would you see the need for a mandatory tariff in that case? If it was being dealt with effectively, enforcement was happening, people who are illegally copying works were being held accountable and paying for that, would you see the need for a mandatory tariff regime?
President, Professional Writers Association of Canada
I think we still do need the tariffs. We do need the universities, the libraries, and the other institutions, to pay their fees to Access Copyright because that really is the only way. I think it would be too difficult to develop some sort of an enforcement procedure. Who then is going to do that enforcement and how is that going to be carried out and that type of thing? I think if you just stick with the fees that are negotiated with each institution, then that is the easiest way to make sure that the publishers and creators do get paid for their work.
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
There's a significant amount of worry from the universities and the educational institutions that they're not really getting what they're paying for. They're not getting the value for the money that they're paying for, and so it seems to me there should be a more transactional model so that they can actually get what they're paying for.
Don't you think there needs to be a better way for universities?
President, Professional Writers Association of Canada
Perhaps there needs to be a different model, but universities at this point are claiming that they shouldn't have to pay a tariff for this material because it's being used for educational purposes and education should be free.
To that, I would answer that education isn't free. Students pay tuition. University professors are paid. Support staff is paid.
Education isn't free. Why should the material that is created by the writers be free?
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
I totally sympathize with the point you're making. We had some testimony from the University of Calgary last week that they have attempted to pay for transactional licences with Access Copyright but that they were refused. They weren't allowed to do transactional licences when they wanted to do that.
What would be your comment on that? The universities are trying—not all universities, but in some cases—to get transactional licences, but they're being refused. What's your comment on that?
President, Professional Writers Association of Canada
I can't speak for Access Copyright.
Conservative
Conservative
Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB
Could you give me a quick comment? Are authors being better protected in jurisdictions similar to Canada, for example, the European Union or the United States, and what do they do better for authors and publishers, or what do they worse, in your opinion?
President, Professional Writers Association of Canada
New York has just enacted legislation that is called “Freelance Isn't Free”. I think if Ontario, to start, and Canada perhaps, to follow, could do something like that, it would ensure that more authors are being paid for their work, particularly when it's done on a freelance basis and not by staff writers with newspapers and magazines.
Conservative
