Evidence of meeting #121 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was content.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Terry Sheehan Liberal Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Yes, that would be good.
I'm going to pass my time to Lloyd. We're going to share some time down the line.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Thank you.
I just have one question and then I'll pass it over to Mr. Badawey.
On the business model, the original creation has a cost attached to it, and the distribution afterwards has another cost. Because we're not paying the performers, does this copyright have an impact on the business decisions to create works in Canada? Do people say that because they don't have to pay the distribution expenses if they create in Canada...? Is there a connection there on the business model?
4:55 p.m.
President, National Office, Directors Guild of Canada
What is the incentive to make things here if you're a producer from outside?
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Lloyd Longfield Liberal Guelph, ON
Yes, does our Copyright Act impact the cost decision of creating works in Canada?
4:55 p.m.
President, National Office, Directors Guild of Canada
No, I think the only thing the Copyright Act would do in that specific dynamic is produce greater clarity in the rights market.
4:55 p.m.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Thank you, Lloyd.
I have just a few questions with respect to the business model and, of course, with that, establishing sustainable pathways.
Mr. Southam, you mentioned the fact that financial benefits can be accrued over time, and injected into the overall business model. But I want to concentrate on the Copyright Act and the mechanisms that all of you had mentioned earlier with respect to the Copyright Act. I am trying to walk away with some tangibles so we can make some recommendations at the end of the process.
I've heard mechanisms mentioned with respect to new technologies and how we can capture a lot of the pirate sites. With that second point, is an independent organization to monitor the pirate sites engaged in this kind of activity?
Instead of a separate entity, would a sub-entity of the CRTC suffice?
5 p.m.
International Vice-President and Director of Canadian Affairs, International Alliance of Theatrical Stage Employees
Speaking for the IA, yes. We're looking for an objective third party in whom the industry and the population of our country would have confidence that it would look at it in a fair, impartial way.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Ensuring proper legislation and ensuring the first right of copyright, I'm hearing that as a priority as well.
5 p.m.
Director of Policy, National Office, Directors Guild of Canada
That's exactly what we're saying, that writers and directors are the authors of audiovisual content and therefore the first copyright owners.
When it comes to all the things you talked about in your prior question about the exploitation, the distribution, and the financing, they go hand in hand. As an example, notwithstanding that the act is not clear on the question, our director members are asked to waive moral rights as part of the contract they engage with when they're creating content. There is an implicit recognition of their moral rights, if it isn't spelled out in the act. What we're asking for is clarity for something that is already the practice in our industry.
The second point to that is that nobody who creates content doesn't want it to be seen. There is nobody more motivated to have that content out in the world and fully exploited than the people who make it. What they're seeking is fair and equitable compensation for their work.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Thank you.
Someone made the comment that the royalties for streaming are compensated times eleven in the U.S. versus Canada. I'm not sure who made that comment. Can you dig a bit deeper into that one?
5 p.m.
General Manager, Artisti
Maybe I could provide you with the notes that the Copyright Board had written pursuant to the decision that it rendered in Re:Sound Tariff 8. They say in that document what the rate is for the U.S. at the same time. When you make the calculation of what is paid in Canada, it's eleven times.
It is 10.78 times lower.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
With all that said, I'm assuming that, if these are taken care of as take-aways for the committee to consider as recommendations moving forward, it would position you on a more level playing field in competition with the U.S. markets.
5 p.m.
General Manager, Artisti
It's fascinating to see that on one side of the border, listening to online streaming generates very little money, as compared to what it yields one kilometre away on the other side of the border. On the other side of the border, it generates 11 times more money. It is fascinating that in two neighbouring countries with strong economies, there is such a disparity in the value of a single instance of online streaming.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
Is there anything else that you want to add besides what I had already mentioned? That's what I took away. I might have missed something, so is there anything you want to add or anything I missed, which in fact the committee should take into consideration moving forward?
5 p.m.
President, National Office, Directors Guild of Canada
We're all tempted to look at the new Internet environment as a very different environment in terms of rights management, in terms of the creative act. I would challenge anyone leaning into the question to consider what it means to be a writer or a director alone in a kitchen or in apartment, entering that universe, and to articulate a rights environment where that person is now going to do it for free just because we're working with a different set of wires. That's a slightly reductive summary of the Internet, but in terms of the creative act, it's one of our great challenges.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
Mr. Southam, what you're proposing doesn't exist in the States right now, does it, that they recognize more rights for the director and the screenwriter? It seems to say that it exists in Europe.
5 p.m.
President, National Office, Directors Guild of Canada
No, the U.S. and Canada do not have that in the law. Our concern is for all the creators who do not actually belong to our union, because our contracts—the Directors Guild of America and the writers guilds of America and the Writers Guild of Canada and the Directors Guild of Canada—contain recognition of the intellectual property component of our work, and also the moral right component of our work. It's in our contracts. It isn't in the law, so anyone not working inside that contractual universe—
June 7th, 2018 / 5:05 p.m.
Liberal
David Lametti Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC
Moral rights in Canada, but not in the United States.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Baylis Liberal Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC
I'm asking about the United States. This does not exist in the United States—
