Evidence of meeting #14 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was universities.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
The previous question that I asked was about formed credentials, and I'll let you have some thoughts on that. Then I have one last question after that.
I'll allow all three panellists to have a crack at it, if they like.
5:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Georgian College
Yes. It's a costly process, and I would say we don't have the resources to address it. I think it's a place where if Canada wanted to take a good look at how we could do this, it would be wise.
We know in Europe they have a Bologna accord, where there is an agreement between all the European countries about programs and their standards, and about how programs are assessed. People who get them can move throughout Europe and their boundaries. It can be done.
We have a huge job, and there's a lot of time that needs to be invested to ensure and protect the employers. When we say they are the same credentials then they have to be the same credentials. I think it's something worth looking at. It would be great for students and for transferability in Canada, but it's a costly thing to start.
5:15 p.m.
Vice-President, Government Relations and Canadian Partnerships, Colleges and Institutes Canada
I know many colleges and institutes invest quite a bit in a one-on-one basis by working with each individual student to assess their prior learning and making sure they're going to be not spending time and money they don't have to.
The professional associations also play a role in this, in terms of acceptance, and it's not only the colleges that have an option to say yea or nay to the next person who comes in the door.
5:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Universities Canada
I was going to pick up on Christine's point. The focus needed on the regulated professionals, whether it's engineers, or doctors, or other highly skilled professionals, has to come through the regulated professions. That's where the challenge lies. Universities can help, and colleges can help, but—
5:15 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Georgian College
We can sign agreements, but if the professional bodies don't accept them them, we still have the same problem.
5:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Exactly. It seems to be, for the individuals who come to me as doctors, for example, it's difficult for them to find the correct pathway forward. I will even give an example. One of my close personal friends that I went to school with—I've known him since kindergarten—is now practising in the United States because the transfer of his medical degree—and he's at one of the best hospitals in the United States—is so costly. It's easier for him to have his family there and come back to Windsor all the time. He lives in the U.S., and he pays taxes in the U.S. He considered coming back to Canada, but in raising a family, and with all the different things, and the investment that he's made, it makes it more difficult for that individual.
I agree, it's not just a.... It also relates to our immigration policy and so forth. Expectations sold abroad, which are quite different when people get here, are fraudulent. In my opinion that fraudulent expectation crushes individuals. Now the next generation of that, their sons and daughters, are watching them not practice what they were back somewhere else because of mere red tape or other difficulties.
I'll be quick Mr. Chair.
I'm lucky to have the University of Windsor and St. Clair College in my riding. I'm familiar with lots of the innovation that takes place.
I'll end with one thing, to have all three of you to finish, and that's one of the reasons I've been asking about the sustainability of our system. It's more about AUTO21, for example, and fortunately Windsor being sunsetted for mere number reasons in terms of it only goes to 14, which is ridiculous in my opinion.
Aside from that, when you look at inventions and innovations in the past, such as potato chips, x-rays, Teflon, and all those things, they were accidental innovations. I'm a little concerned and want your final thoughts on whether there's space. Are we sometimes over-prescribing the development of innovation as opposed to the exploration that leads to innovation?
5:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Georgian College
Can I talk about potato chips for a minute? With Miss Vickie's—and I challenge most people who went to an entrepreneurial area—I know the women who was her mentor in Collingwood and who helped make what was just enough chips to sell in a church basement grow into a product that is now on every shelf in every Ontario grocery store. If you're not from Ontario, try them, because they're absolutely great.
She did not do that without support to grow a business and transform it into a large business. The flip to not having the space is that idea could have stayed in a church basement and never gone anywhere. We would all miss that wonderful experience of having that bag of chips.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Well, my point on that example is that actually in the 1800s a chef was mad at one of his customers so he actually created the potato chip, which ended up being over-salted and so forth, but it became a hit.
My point is, are we stifling by over-prescription of these things sometimes?
5:20 p.m.
Vice-President, Government Relations and Canadian Partnerships, Colleges and Institutes Canada
I think one of the big mitigating forces against over-prescribing is students. Students come and look at everything differently. You put them in a lab or expose them to technology, a machine, or an idea, and they're going to turn it on its head in an instant. They'll take us by surprise all the time, so the more they get that chance for hands-on experience, for tossing ideas around....
Paul talked about the multidisciplinary aspect, and I think that's a lot of what those incubators and hubs are all about, getting people from a whole lot of different disciplines, backgrounds, and work experience all together, trading ideas over a cup of coffee or a beer or whatever it is, and that's where those aha moments come from.
5:20 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Universities Canada
I will just say that I share your concern when people get too prescriptive, when they have a three-year horizon when they should be thinking about a 30-year horizon. We have to do both.
Again, disruption happens in 72 hours now, so we have to be able to work in multiple time sequences. I made the phrase in my remarks about letting discovery lead. It is about the creative instinct, it is about following your interests, and it is about serendipity. Many of the greatest inventions and greatest innovations in the world were not a result of a three-year results-based plan.
5:20 p.m.
NDP
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
Thank you very much. Time is up.
I really would like to thank our guests for coming in today. I feel that I lost out because I never went to university and maybe I—
5:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Dan Ruimy
It's early; I could sign up now.
Thank you very much for attending.
We're going to take a quick two-minute recess. We have a couple of housekeeping items to take care of and then we're good to go.
The meeting is suspended.
[Proceedings continue in camera]