Right.
Further to that, I think there's probably some onus on an external provider to provide knowledge transfer and some encouragement to be able to take that on internally. There's also the element of whether they have the confidence within the company to do it correctly and to do it consistently. Some of the onus to take it on and to do what Mr. Deveau's company has done is on the company as well, so that at the end of the day get the benefit that the program is intended to deliver.