Industry Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2016

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

With that I would differ, Mr. Chair, because the Liberals have brought up the previous statistician, Mr. Smith, and he's mentioned here as well, so the government did open this up. It is relevant and pertinent because our first line of questioning was related to that, and specifically to reference as well, too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

We can have plenty of discussion going back and forth, but again, this is not relating to the competencies of Mr. Arora, so it is a notice of motion.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Well, Mr. Chair, I don't understand that, because the Liberals have brought this up. They have brought up the connection during the discussion, and it is pertinent to the discussion that we're having today. I would disagree with that ruling because the reality is that I was not the one who introduced that line of conversation to this meeting. That was done beyond me, and I think it adds to this meeting, and I would think that it's very appropriate to deal with it right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Mr. Nuttall—oh, sorry; Mr. Longfield, go ahead.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thank you.

I'd like to move to adjourn debate so that we can continue on with the witness.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

As of right now I've ruled it as a notice of motion, so as not to—

Mr. Masse—

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

I would like to call that into question. I challenge that ruling on the basis that if there's a subject on the floor that we're discussing, which includes....

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

There's no debate on it. You can challenge my decision, but—

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

It is so challenged.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Okay. We will take a vote.

[Alex Nuttall, Conservative, Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON]

Could we call a recorded vote on that?

[The Clerk]

Shall the chair's ruling be sustained?

(Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 5; nays 4)

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

The chair's ruling is sustained.

You still have three minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I guess if I can't have my motion passed, I'll continue with the questioning of Mr. Jowhari with regard to the actions of Mr. Smith.

What type of advice did Mr. Smith leave behind for you? What documents and what type of working materials did he leave with regard to this conflict or with regard to concerns raised when he was leaving the position?

[Anil Arora]

Mr. Smith left nothing for me specifically, in terms of either advice or documents. You have what I have in terms of his public commentary.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

All we have is one page from you, and ours from someone—the clerk or whoever. That's all. We don't have a curriculum vitae. We don't have a resume. We don't have any of those things.

We have your presentation, and I thank you for being here, but I find it odd that there would be no succession planning in a major position such as this, and no advice provided upon exiting a very serious department that's responsible for a lot of government funding and opinions that are important for industry, science, and technology. It's quite shocking, actually, that we have that dysfunctionality.

Were there any documents or words of advice left from Mr. Sheikh before that? He too departed in relation to a conflict in the workplace. Did he provide any type of material or advice to Mr. Smith and yourself?

[Anil Arora]

I left Statistics Canada before Mr. Munir Sheikh resigned.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Well, you must have been there during the time he was there, since you started there in 1997.

[Anil Arora]

I left in March of 2010. If I have my dates right, I think Munir Sheikh left in June of the same year, so I left a few months before he did.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Why did you leave? Was there a particular reason?

[Anil Arora]

I had an opportunity at Natural Resources Canada.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay.

With regard to the current situation, the RCMP and the Canadian Armed Forces have raised significant concerns about what's taking place. How confident are you in the privacy and the protection of data during the system change? We have seen what has taken place with the Phoenix pay system. How confident are you in the privacy and protection of data, especially by two organizations that deal with very sensitive information?

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

You have about 20 seconds.

[Anil Arora]

First of all, I can't comment on those organizations. I have no idea what their specific context is.

I can tell you that what we're talking about isn't a change to a different system or a different kind of centre; we are talking about increasing the overall capacity while maintaining the current robust architecture for security and confidentiality. We are talking about increasing the capacity, and as that capacity comes in, security and confidentiality is first and foremost and will be maintained to its current level.

We of course continue to make enhancements. We will make enhancements to security and confidentiality as additional risks are identified, and methodologies and approaches are there to mitigate those risks.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you for your time.