Industry Committee on April 13th, 2017

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

What specifically in sections 21 and 22 did you want me to highlight?

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

They said that in terms of section 21, the chief statistician has powers and authorities, and within section 22 the minister has powers and authority. Who rules when?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

When it comes to the operational know-how, when it comes to determining how the data is going to be collected, what kind of data is going to be collected, whether it's mandatory or voluntary, for example, all those powers and authorities lie within the domain of the chief statistician.

With regard to what data we're going to collect and what kind of information we need, what areas we want to focus on, that lies within the prerogative of the minister.

That's what this bill does very clearly. It takes the convention that currently exists and it enshrines that in legislation. It says very clearly that the minister will determine what kind of information we want to collect, and how we go about doing it is left to the prerogative and expertise of Statistics Canada and the chief statistician.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

Thanks.

In regard to the composition of the advisory board, bringing it from 40 down to 10 and including some payments to the people who are on the board.... Remuneration was mentioned. I'm not sure that was really clarified, whether remuneration is really per diems or travel expenses versus being paid a stipend or an annual fee to sit on the board. Could you clarify that?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Again, you're right, it is remuneration. My understanding is that it is based on a per-diem model. These individuals are going to be subject-matter experts. They're highly qualified thought leaders. These individuals understand the importance of good-quality, reliable data. There are modest amounts through per diems to accommodate the efforts they're making to meet up and to provide advice to the chief statistician and the minister. It's not a substantial burden on the treasury. It is a very modest cost.

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

I have sat on a lot of boards, and I'm still trying to find boards that pay.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Lloyd Longfield, Liberal, Guelph, ON]

It's always on a volunteer basis, and this is along the lines of this. It's not going to cost a lot of money to sit on this board. I've also had that experience.

I'm finished with my time and my questions. Thank you for clarifying. It's great to see you.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Thank you very much.

We're going to move to Mr. Dreeshen. You have five minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and Mr. Knubley, for being here. I appreciate your coming to talk about this particular bill.

The OECD framework for good statistical practices clearly states the importance of professional interdependence. I think that's important. We're getting amendments, suggestions, from both the former CSs and former members of NSC, who are telling us that there should be probably between 20 to 25 members for the new council. Of course, we've heard Mr. Arya's endorsement for the number that has been chosen.

It's important that as we look at bringing amendments to this discussion, it is realized that they come from advice that has been given to us by witnesses. We will look at that. We'll try to find a number. If it is carved in stone, we'll find that out as we go through the discussions.

I think it's important that we recognize it, and of course there's not necessarily a guarantee that cabinet directions and directives, decisions, are as transparent as one might suggest, as these things are made behind closed doors, but that has already been mentioned.

I have two things I wanted to ask. Based on the provisions of Bill C-36, who gets to call the shots when it comes to IT services? Will it be part of the new powers granted to the CS, or will it be the minister who gets to decide what kind of IT infrastructure StatsCan will use?

On the other question, was it your call or Mr. Anil Arora's call to stick with Shared Services Canada?

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank you again for the thorough job you and the committee have done in meeting with a lot of witnesses. As you mentioned, from those conversations, there are many proposed suggestions for changes.

One of them, of course, is the potential composition of the new Canadian statistical advisory council, for instance, and the number of 10 or, as you had suggested, 20. Look, we feel that 10 is a very reasonable number in terms of being a number that will be focused on the priorities of providing good advice and strategy, but I believe you'll have that conversation among your committee members as you're looking through the bill. I wish you all the best in that endeavour.

With regard to the chief statistician in terms of Shared Services, clearly, as I said before, when it comes to operational matters, or when it comes to IT matters, those are really the domain of the chief statistician, the individuals who work in that agency, and the experts there who understand the importance of reliable data—data that is of good quality, high level, and not compromised. Clearly, that's something they have to determine, and they have to be very clear going forward that if it's shared Services Services, then under that model, can they continue to provide good-quality, reliable data with a high level of integrity? That's exactly what the legislation—

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I appreciate that, because that, I think, was one of the questions that was mentioned before. We heard testimony that putting it into Shared Services is not necessarily going to add to the security side, the integrity side, and so on. There was a concern about that in the discussions. That's more or less why I was wanting to flesh that out.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

Thank you.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

One of the things I've talked about a lot seems minor to a lot of people, I know, but the fact is that Canadians are living longer and longer, and there's a decision to not allow it to be optional to check off whether or not you wish to have your statistical information public after 92 years. It could be simple. It could be done. I know that we've heard about genealogical studies and all of these other kinds of things. I'm within about two hours of having a grandchild—

[Some hon. members]

Hear, hear!

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you.

I'm thinking about—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You should be at the hospital.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Yes, I know. I'll get on the plane as soon as I can.

I'll be 96 years old when the data comes out from the 2021 census. I'm looking at this and trying to say to a lot of people that if you want to get real information, give us some sense of security. For the person who is putting that information down, there is no particular reason that it should be presented, but there might be a bunch of other folks on the sidelines who think it is important. I'll go back to one of the surveys we had done and the statement we had about the 60,000 people who were of the Jedi religion. These kinds of things crop up every once in a while.

I'd like people to recognize the fact that it says that people's information is supposed to be secure, and I'd like it to stay that way.

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

You've run out of time, Earl, but congratulations.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

By the way, that's amazing news, and congratulations on that, Earl.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

If I may, Chair, would you like me to quickly respond to that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Dan Ruimy]

Yes, if you can do it very briefly.

[Navdeep Bains, Liberal, Mississauga—Malton, ON]

I will.

The issue is in regard to the 92-year provision for making that information available to the archives. We've really found the right balance between the need for protecting personal information and, again, for providing that information, as you mentioned, to genealogists and historians. Again, this speaks to our government's overall commitment to having more open data after 92 years, and particularly if somebody fills out the census at the age of 18, then 92 years after that.... I know that people are living longer, but we think this provides the right balance with regard to protecting that person's personal and private information and then making it available for the public good going forward.