Industry Committee on Feb. 20th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Good morning, everyone. We are starting the second meeting of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

As you know, on Tuesday we passed some routine motions, one of which was to instruct the clerk on ordering food, because this committee sits over the course of the lunch hour. I wanted to let members know, if you have any dietary restrictions, allergies, anything like that, to please let the clerk know so that we won't a member falling ill. We wouldn't want that. If you could let the clerk know, that would be great. You don't have to do it now, but I don't want anyone falling ill.

With that, as you know, we have quite a lot of business in front of us, including various notices of motions that have been put forth to the committee. Further to the last meeting, we have also received notice with respect to Bill C-4. I believe we need to have a motion to proceed with that. I see that Ms. Rempel Garner is ready to go forward.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I move this motion expecting that my colleagues will slightly amend its scope, including my colleague from the Bloc.

I move “That pursuant to the correspondence received from the Standing Committee on International Trade on Wednesday, February 19, 2020, the committee (1) issue an open call for stakeholders to submit briefings on Bill C-4 as it relates to (a) auto rules of origin, (b) the impact of USMCA on the aluminum and steel industries, (c) procurement and changes to intellectual property, no later than 4 p.m. on Friday, February 21, 2020.

(2) That the committee invite witnesses on the same topic to appear before committee for no fewer than four hours before noon Eastern Standard Time on Monday, February 24, 2020, and that this meeting be televised.

That the committee schedule a two-hour meeting on the evening of Monday, February 24 to draft recommendations to the Standing Committee on International Trade; and

That the committee issue a letter of recommendation on these topics to the Standing Committee on International Trade no later than 12 p.m. on Tuesday, February 25, 2020, the deadline imposed by that committee.”

I understand that there might be some suggestions by my colleague from the Bloc on the motion's scope, but the goal of this, Madam Chair, is to meet the rather intense timelines and to ensure that stakeholders are able to provide written feedback.

Madam Chair, while this is not part of my motion, I would also seek, if possible, to work with the Standing Committee on International Trade to see if we could perhaps be privy to their witness list or any draft testimony that has been given to date so that we can take that into consideration as part of our deliberations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Perfect.

I'm opening the floor for comments with respect to the motion.

Ms. Gray.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I appreciate the motion on the floor, and I will be supporting it. We're being put in a situation where this committee has an unreasonably rushed timeline to look at legislation. If we agree to study the legislation—meaning the sections from CUSMA that have been sent to our committee—realistically speaking, from today onwards we have two business days to prepare questions, get witnesses from across the country potentially, and then have only two hours for deliberation on the Tuesday. I think this motion giving more time on the Monday is reasonable, although it is still an extremely unrealistic timeline for us to meet.

It's our duty as parliamentarians to examine legislation, and this timeline—even with the proposed motion—makes it really challenging for us to properly fulfill our duties and to fulfill our obligations in the House as defined. I say this especially when we look back at the tone set by the government in the throne speech, where there was a lot of conversation about the spirit of collaboration and working together. One of the things the Prime Minister stated in the House of Commons was the about the need for collaboration in the House and to work together, and mandate letters also mention the need for meaningful engagement with the government caucus and opposition members of Parliament. I'm not trying to delay things here and I know that we need to move forward, but again, recognizing that it's our duty to think deeply and look at legislation closely, the calls of this government to hurry this up and move it along by giving us two business days with a two-hour meeting are unrealistic.

This does allow more opportunity for us to hear from witnesses, but still, it's a very unreasonable deadline. We have to go back to why we're in this situation, where our trading partners have had more time on this. The government here did not bring CUSMA to first reading until January 29, so now we're in this position of having to hurry it up. It's important for us to do our due diligence, in particular since the government has not provided economic impact analysis. This puts us in a really difficult position, with a very tight timeline. This is not good governance; it's flawed and I don't believe we're properly fulfilling our duties, but we're doing the best we can, based on the timeline that has been imposed on us.

That's where we are.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you.

Are there any other comments regarding the motion?

I will go to Mr. Erskine-Smith, and then we have Mr. Masse and Monsieur Lemire.

Go ahead.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

To Mrs. Gray's point, we do have a tight timeline, and when I was reading the correspondence from the international trade committee, I understood our job to be fairly narrow, rather than to duplicate work by other committees. I thought this was a tight timeline, but when I went to the sections that we are to cover, I realized they include only a very limited aspect of the Competition Act, a bit of the Copyright Act and trademarks, and some of the Invest in Canada Act. That's the bulk of it to be honest. This is what we're dealing with here; it's not the full trade agreement.

The only comment I would have about the motion is that with regard to the auto rules of origin, the impact of the USMCA on the aluminum and steel industries, I don't know what the amendment by Mr. Lemire is, but if we're already worried about a tight timeline, it's a little odd to expand our mandate in such a short period of time at the same time as complaining about compressed schedules.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

First, I want to thank the mover of the motion for working on this quickly and getting it in front of us. That was a tight timeline itself, so I do appreciate that; I'll be supporting the motion.

I've sat at a couple of meetings at the international trade committee, where they are doing some of this work as well. I think it is a very tight timeline, no doubt about it, but at the same time, I've been the recipient of several governments' closure motions in the House of Commons without being able to participate, so I'll reflect on the reduction of opportunities. I think this is about the best we can do with it.

I would encourage some testimony from the trade department, if we could, related to the subject matter, and also maybe ask their researchers if they have anything they can share with us, and also get a call-out for written submissions right away. Obviously, we're going to have some logistical issues related to trying to get people here, and it would be an opportune time to try to reach out to those who want to get something in today and tomorrow after the motion. It's unfortunate, but we either have to deal with this or not, and I'd rather deal with it. I think the member's put forth a plan here that at least we can do, and I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you Madam Chair.

My intervention concerns agriculture and the possibility of adding a point about agricultural producers. I leave it to you to choose the wording. It can simply be about the agri-food industry. What I'm particularly interested in is the dairy industry. It would be important for the committee to know the impact of the bill on this industry.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

We are discussing an amendment right now.

Are there any comments on the amendment?

Mr. Ehsassi.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I would speak to the amendment. I think we are largely supportive of this motion, with the three issues that have been identified, but as has been suggested by other members, this is a tight timeline. We want to ensure that there isn't overlap in terms of the issues being considered.

From what I have heard, the agri-food portions of the agreement are being considered by the agriculture committee, so I'm not necessarily convinced that this committee weighing in on that particular aspect of the agreement would be particularly helpful. The agriculture committee has already heard testimony and has examined the portions of the agreement that relate to agriculture.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Are there any further comments with respect to the amendment to include agriculture?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I think it is important to include this point because there are special aspects to the dairy industry. I don't mind being explicit, if you wish, but I would like to see the dairy industry mentioned, because it will experience serious consequences. It's important to look at it from the perspective of the industry as a whole.

I will not add to the list of speakers on this subject, but I think it is important to bring these issues to the committee's attention. I am moving a formal motion, in the hope that it will be adopted.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Could you repeat the amendment before you?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Yes. I would add one point to include the agri-food industry. We could, if you agree, mention the dairy industry specifically.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

We have a question from Madam Jaczek.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Madam Chair, is there not a way of checking the exact wording of what the agricultural committee is looking at, to see if there is possible overlap or duplication? Presumably, the terms of reference for that committee are well known. I'm wondering if the clerk can check.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

If you will give us a moment, the clerk will double-check the letter from the chair of the trade committee and the exact articles of Bill C-4 that were mandated. We will be back to you in a moment.

Mr. Erskine-Smith.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I just have a clarification question. It's odd to me that we're really faced with, what, six hours of…?

If people want to send briefs, I don't care what they send their briefs on; that's fine. If they want to duplicate briefs that they send to us and send to agriculture, go for it: copy and paste. But when it comes to our six hours when we're presumably going to do the work of this committee, are we going to have witnesses? Are we going to have the dairy farmers in? Are we going to have the auto manufacturers in? Or are we going to do our job on this particular piece of CUSMA and bring witnesses in to speak to the issues we're tasked with dealing with?

Like, I legitimately don't know, with only six hours, what we're actually doing here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I think we're trying to make the best of a situation here. That's the bottom line.

I'm open to the amendment, because the problem with agri-food is that it crosses over from marketing to manufacturing, production, trade and quotas. It's a series of different things. We're probably only going to get a quick snippet of everything here. I'd just rather get 'er done the best we can. By adding another person here, it will probably take out maybe one or two witnesses from the others, but again, it will be a shallow, quick strike anyway on some of this stuff. We'll have to rely on written submissions if we want specific recommendations.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Give us one moment. We're just verifying what the agriculture committee has.

[Francis Lord]

If we look at the motion from the Standing Committee on International Trade, the agriculture committee will be looking at amendments to the Export and Import Permits Act, the Fertilizers Act and the Canada Grain Act. I can't say more than that, but strictly from the motion from international trade committee, that is the legislation that the bill is amending.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Go ahead, Mr. Ehsassi.