Evidence of meeting #20 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was health.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Gordon and Patricia Gray Chair in Particle Astrophysics, Professor Emeritus, Nobel Physics Laureate 2015, Department of Physics, Engineering Physics and Astronomy, Queen's University, As an Individual
In a sense there are two questions.
First of all, we had substantial support from the Canadian national laboratories, which of course are publicly funded at their basis, in converting their special teams to this project. From that point of view, we were able to proceed.
The private sector companies of course put a lot of their resources into this, anticipating that ultimately there would be a contract for them to recoup their expenditures. From that point of view, we had a letter of intent from the federal government early on, assuming we were able to meet its requirements, to be able to go forward with the project. That was very helpful.
You're asking me in general about the question of funding for science, engineering and indeed for economic activities across the country. I actually served on Canada's fundamental science review panel a few years ago, which was chaired by David Naylor. In that review we made a number of recommendations, some of which have been accepted by the federal government. We're very hopeful that this perspective as to the value of funding, not only for science and engineering but also for a broad range of academic activities, is of value to the country in many ways.
Of our graduates in the basic science we do, 75% of them are not university professors. They're very skilled at evidence-based decision-making, and that gets carried to the financial industry, to other technology companies or to government. It's a broad spectrum that is obtained by funding academics in this country.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you.
Our next round of questions goes to MP Masse for six minutes.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you for leading us through what was probably a historic vote that we had on the last segment.
There are a couple of things happening that I want to ask about with regard to Mr. Musson. We have historic government spending on a number of different programs and services right now. We have a lot of innovation that's taking place. We also had a directive prior to this, but even more so now, to move more Canadians online, whether it be at home, through education, through business or even on personal matters. In fact, it's for everything from your home family experience to getting your daily banking and a whole series of things done. Expectations have risen even in applying for government services during all of this.
We also heard from a number of witnesses and, just recently, our Privacy Commissioner that our laws are outdated with regard to protecting privacy for individual Canadians and even for the business sector.
From my own work on the Competition Bureau, I know that it's antiquated in terms of bringing down penalties on those who are bad players. We also don't have international agreements to go after bad operators with regard to even some of our own trading partners. We've done some work here on the committee, and I thank the committee again for its work on fraud.
I'd just like to know a little more about the particulars of your program. You mentioned a phrase about leaving “the side door” open. Can you flesh that out in terms of how as we ramp up our speed in going online, at the same time what's happening that's really vulnerable...? How does your not-for-profit program fill that void? I think you mentioned 25,000 unfilled positions before COVID-19.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Dynamite Network
Yes. I appreciate the question.
Canada has a severe lack of talent as it relates to cybersecurity. With our program, we've been able to identify the best and the brightest who want to learn about cybersecurity. With Coding for Veterans, what we're proposing is to have a similar program but target it towards unemployed workers.
For the Coding for Veterans program, we have all the people who are interested in enrolling do a 45-minute online assessment that makes sure they have the soft skills and the aptitude to be successful in a job related to cybersecurity. As for the whole reason why that is, at the end of it, we want close to 100% job placement for graduates from the program.
What's interesting is that when you're talking about privacy, and when you're talking about all these other cyber-issues and tracking the bad guys, that all takes people power, and it takes accredited people to be able to do it. Canada has a lack of sufficient talent as it relates to cybersecurity. It's an open secret. We've heard it from CSE and in my own anecdotal evidence from our financial institutions and defence companies. They're clamouring for graduates coming out of our program, so I've said, “Why can we not take this opportunity for those who are unemployed?” If these jobs are surviving this global pandemic, you know that they are stable, good-paying jobs, and people can get back to work.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Where I'm from, the manufacturing industry has been hollowed out in many respects. We've seen what was predictable to me, which is a dependency on foreign nations, including non-democratic nations, for PPE and other types of materials. For example, in the auto industry, even though we have some support happening and awesome projects going on, there's been a dependency on foreign manufacturing because of wages and other types of barriers.
Are we in the same circumstance? If we don't fill these jobs with Canadians, if we don't train them ourselves, would we actually be dependent on foreign jobs—jobs or people outside of Canada—to fulfill our cybersecurity?
President and Chief Executive Officer, Dynamite Network
Absolutely, and the problem is that we'd have to rely on others in the Five Eyes network. We've seen this movie before. When we have to rely on foreign companies, we get bumped down the list. What I'm proposing is that we use cybersecurity as a driver of economic activity, like the Israelis do. Not only can we retrain and reskill our unemployed workers, but when we become a global leader, guess what? We can then be the experts that the world turns to.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
As this grows, we've even seen the call industry relocate back into some parts of Canada because of security issues, so instead of having that problem later, we do a training program now. You're involved with the University of Ottawa, I believe it is, to ramp up our qualified credentials for that and not even go down the road of dependency. You stop that before it happens.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Dynamite Network
Absolutely. The PPE was the canary in the coal mine, in my opinion. The University of Ottawa and the PDI program, led by Mr. Serge Blais, has been a phenomenal partner to train and reskill military veterans in our program. We said, “Let's supply that same framework to unemployed workers.”
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Yes. We're seeing the vulnerability in our agricultural sector. Just outside my area right now, we have another COVID outbreak from one of the groups that's come inside, and we have to try to deal with that.
Thank you, Madam Chair. My time's up.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
We now move to our second round of questions.
Our first question comes from MP Gray. You have the floor for five minutes.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all of the speakers for being here today.
Something that I hear about quite often, whether it's ventilators or testing kits, is delays with Health Canada for approving products that might be similar in the United States or in the United Kingdom. Things seem to take longer here.
First of all, I'd like to ask Mr. McDonald. Is this something that your team has faced, and do you have any concerns with red tape as you've been going through your processes?
Gordon and Patricia Gray Chair in Particle Astrophysics, Professor Emeritus, Nobel Physics Laureate 2015, Department of Physics, Engineering Physics and Astronomy, Queen's University, As an Individual
No. Actually, it's just the opposite. Health Canada has been very helpful as we've gone forward. There are some small differences between what the approval that we already have from the FDA is and what Health Canada will be looking for, but in particular, Health Canada will be providing authorization for our Canadian manufacturers. You authorize a final product in this case, so it's important for us to manufacture and test specifically what is being manufactured here in Canada and submit it to them for the final approval.
We've had guidance on the characteristics they're looking for, and they have offered us a three- to five-day turnaround once we have submitted the device for authorization. I've found Health Canada to be very good.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
That's good to know. Thank you.
When we look back to January, we see that it was January 30 when the World Health Organization declared a public health emergency of international concern. It was back then that they were making statements and recommendations, and going into February, telling countries to mobilize and prepare even if they didn't have incidents in their country yet. As we look at our timeline here, we see that it was just on May 27 when our health minister signed an interim order to accelerate access to products related to COVID-19, a full four months later.
My first questions are to Dr. McDonald. Do you feel that if we had mobilized sooner and put some plans together sooner, we would have had a greater impact on this crisis? When did you start your process? I believe you said it was sometime in March. Could you explain your timeline and your thoughts on whether we could have been further ahead if we had started the work earlier this year?
Gordon and Patricia Gray Chair in Particle Astrophysics, Professor Emeritus, Nobel Physics Laureate 2015, Department of Physics, Engineering Physics and Astronomy, Queen's University, As an Individual
We started our project in Italy on March 19 and in Canada on March 23. That was predicated by the very dire circumstance in Italy that stimulated our original response. At that time, we began discussions with the people who were already active in this area, which included NRC and NGen, as mentioned by John Walmsley. In fact, I spoke with John at the time as an experienced medical equipment manufacturer, and he was very helpful, as were many people at that time, including, in particular, people associated with the federal government.
We had an initial review of what we were developing. We actually had a device working on the benchtop within a week for our design. It was, I think, on April 7 that the federal government made a commitment, at least through letters of intent, assuming successful fulfillment of their conditions in such a letter. That was a pretty good response, from my perspective.
Conservative
Tracy Gray Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC
Thank you, Doctor.
I'm up against the clock here, but I'd like to ask a similar question of StarFish Medical. I wonder if you could answer a similar question regarding the timeline of when you became active. We know that the pandemic was declared on March 12. Was it after that, or were you involved previous to that deadline? When did you get involved? Would you have seen different activities happen that would have been more helpful?
Executive Vice-President, Strategic Relationships, StarFish Medical
As you are running out of time, my answer will be very short. I don't anticipate that we could have reacted differently. March 19 was also when we first engaged with the Winnipeg ventilator. We'd had some preliminary conversations shortly before that. For ourselves, as an organization that is focused on technology, looking ahead to what technologies might be required, and when, is kind of outside of our agreement.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much. That's all the time we have for that round.
Our next round of questions goes to MP Jowhari. You have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair. I will be splitting my time equally with MP Lambropoulos.
Thank you to the witnesses for all the great information. Thank you as well for all the great work you've done. You've made us proud and you've made Canada proud. You're also putting the health of many citizens of the world at the forefront.
Dr. McDonald, you talked about the fact that you started the Canadian research on March 21, and you recently submitted the Canadian design to Health Canada for approval. You also heard feedback, in around three to five days, in approval. Can you tell us when you actually submitted? When do you expect to have the approval from a timing point of view?
Gordon and Patricia Gray Chair in Particle Astrophysics, Professor Emeritus, Nobel Physics Laureate 2015, Department of Physics, Engineering Physics and Astronomy, Queen's University, As an Individual
No, I'm sorry, I must have misspoken earlier. We are planning to submit to Health Canada in a couple of weeks' time.
Gordon and Patricia Gray Chair in Particle Astrophysics, Professor Emeritus, Nobel Physics Laureate 2015, Department of Physics, Engineering Physics and Astronomy, Queen's University, As an Individual
At that point, they have committed to giving us a three- to five-day turnaround.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
You're anticipating to submit, but during this time you have the requirements and you're very clear what Health Canada is looking for, and it will be three to five days. We're hoping that in three weeks we will have a Canadian-made ventilator approved by Health Canada. Am I correct on that?
Gordon and Patricia Gray Chair in Particle Astrophysics, Professor Emeritus, Nobel Physics Laureate 2015, Department of Physics, Engineering Physics and Astronomy, Queen's University, As an Individual
That's correct. We're hoping to start production at the end of this month.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Great. Thank you for that.
You also talked about 10,000 ventilators and the plan for about 800 per week. Am I clear in understanding that those are targeted for the federal government and that there may be partnerships or orders coming from the provinces and territories, or do those 10,000 cover all levels of government? Could you clarify that a bit?