Evidence of meeting #6 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was funding.
A video is available from Parliament.
NDP
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Well, I can give you specifics in the sense of the kinds of institutions the money has gone to. If the honourable member is looking for a specific accounting, we could return with it.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Okay, we can do that.
I'm going to move on to the next question. I think this is important. When you come and present these numbers, they characterize many things.
You mentioned the superclusters, about which I get many questions. There are 1,700 member organizations involved. Who are they? You have compiled 1,700 and you have 40 projects and you've actually leveraged, you said, $143 million.
Is that actual cash? Is it investment in kind, of services? What is it?
I'm looking for specifics of what you've presented here today.
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
There are five superclusters across the country in a number of sectors. I'd be happy to elucidate which sectors and the types of investments.
They are required to receive class-matching. There are specific requirements around what is required when the supercluster makes an investment. Each supercluster has developed criteria for membership. Some have an open membership model whereby interested companies can apply; others charge a membership fee.
These are actually organizations that have applied for support from the Government of Canada. There was a competitive process, but they have an independent board and they manage their affairs.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
I have to interrupt you at this point.
I'm not trying to be difficult here, but you're presenting significant statistics in front of our committee. I'd like you to come back and back them up with specifics. I want the 1,700 members, the 40 projects. You're saying you have leveraged $143 million; I'd like a list of where that $143 million went and showing whether it was in-kind contributions or actual financial contributions. Those are specifics that I think our committee deserves.
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Madam Chair, I would say that the superclusters, under the—
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
I apologize, but did you wish to have an answer, sir? I just—
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Yes, just let me finish, because I want to deal with this too, so that you have it too in your next presentation on this, because it's all connected here, these three patches that you have. You have the 400 companies supporting more than 13,000 jobs. I'd like evidence of what those jobs are, where they are and which employers and companies you actually have. I want this information to come back.
If we're having information presented here, Madam Chair, that's what I am asking for. I am not trying to be hostile here at any point, but I want to dispense with those three things that we've been presented here in very specific terms about numbers and money that has been spent. I'd like it to come back to us at a certain point in time.
I'll let you finish and take the time you need to explain all that.
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
What I would say with regard to the superclusters is that a condition of receiving the money was that there be transparency measures. The members of the superclusters are a matter of public record. The investments they make are a matter of public record; they have to actually disclose the investments. They produce annual reports.
The money that the Government of Canada invests through programs such as the strategic innovation fund is also a matter of public record—
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
—and the information is available on our website, so I'm struggling a little bit to understand the specific extra detail, other than the—
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
The specific detail is: think about the three statistics and talking elements that you have have related to them. I'd like you to come back with the evidence of those specific things that you came here to present to us. That's what I'm asking for.
I know they're all public. You've consolidated them, apparently—unless you haven't consolidated them and these are numbers that are just thrown out here—but I'd like to have the information that you have come here to this committee to present and the results the investments have had to be presented to us so that we know exactly what they mean.
I'll give a very specific example. You have 1,400 businesses and organizations at stages of innovation. I'd like to know how that number was actually calculated, how the data matrix was presented in front of us.
The same goes for the other ones you've presented here. I think it's a reasonable thing, when you come and present in front of us. When you're talking about 13,000 jobs, I'd like to know where those jobs have been created, in what regions, and in what specific things. We need to see what's working out there. That's why I'd like to see those things.
As for the 400 companies, I don't have time to go through and find those 400 companies. They are a matter of public record, but you have decided to present them here as evidence of work that's being done. We have to have that information consolidated for us.
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Shall I answer, Madam Chair, or how would you wish me—
Liberal
Deputy Minister, Department of Industry
Yes. As I say, I think all of this material is subject to proactive disclosure, so it is available publicly.
If I could conclude, I would just say that with regard to the jobs numbers, we are not in the habit of coming and throwing numbers around. Through such programs as the strategic innovation fund, when we reach an agreement with a company there are binding undertakings that the company makes; there are legally binding commitments.
The numbers I've cited are numbers from the various agreements that have been reached with the various organizations that have been invested in. This is an aggregation of quite specific information from the kinds of agreements that have been negotiated.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
That doesn't satisfy me. If you're presenting statistics and numbers and your actions with 400 companies, but can't tell me who those companies are and where public money has been spent, it's a problem.
We need to know whether these are good investments or not. We need to know who our partners are. If you're presenting that information in front of us, our committee should have the methodology by which you came up to present that information in front of us.
NDP
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Mr. Masse, unfortunately that's your time. We'll have the clerk follow up with the request that you made.