Industry Committee on Feb. 16th, 2021

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Attaran. I was interested in his comments on the lack of transparency and the conflicts of interest.

I would like to know whether he is aware of the ranking in The Economist that compares countries. In it, we see that Canada's strategy will not place us among the three countries that will complete their vaccination in 2021. Canada will only get there towards the middle of 2022.

Mr. Attaran, do you feel that all Canadians will be vaccinated by September 2021, as the Prime Minister and his ministers have been constantly telling us for weeks?

[Prof. Amir Attaran]

I really do not know, because there is no transparency. The Prime Minister says that the entire population will be vaccinated by September. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.

If we can't see the contracts and the precise planning, how can we know?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I completely share your opinion on that. The strategy in Canada probably costs much more than in other countries.

Do you think that a vaccine that we paid for in the final quarter of 2020 will cost a lot more than a vaccine that we get next summer, for example?

[Prof. Amir Attaran]

It's not even a question of the price. We shouldn't be worried about this. What I'm worried about is that, even right now, the government is failing awfully at advancing manufacturing plans. We are doing it in the slowest possible way we can. What happens if in the next 12 months evolution gives us a new variant that is highly resistant to existing vaccines? Then we are cooked.

I want to see vaccine manufacturing in this country moving at a British speed so that by summer, like the British, we have manufacturing under way. This idea of letting the manufacturing come at the end of the year or next year is simply asking to put our lives at risk if a nasty surprise is given to us by evolution.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

On a scale from 1 to 10, what mark could you give to the Government of Canada in terms of its entire strategy since the beginning of the pandemic and its huge purchase of 400,000 vaccines?

[Prof. Amir Attaran]

You're asking a professor to do that? It's close to a failure.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Masse for two and a half minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I had another question, but I'm going to go back to Professor Attaran with regard to capacity.

Here's the reality. The vaccine promise is starting to roll in there with child care, pharmacare, electoral reform, Bill C-51, climate change, fossil fuel subsidies, a whole series of things that have been promised and never acted upon. However, this one is really dangerous in particular. The other ones are equally difficult to deal with as well, but this one's really bad.

I want to know. If we are able to ramp up and catch up with what's going on, do we have the infrastructure for the administration of the vaccine? Do we have the physical capacity being put in place right now by the task force to make sure that, if we are going to play catch-up, we can do so with the proper administration of the vaccine to our population?

[Prof. Amir Attaran]

Before I answer that, I'll comment on what you just said.

There's something different about a pandemic and vaccination from all the other challenges you listed. A government's highest moral priority is protecting the life of its citizens. There is nothing above that. If a government can't do that effectively and convincingly, with transparency, it is not fit.

As I see it right now, to answer your question, we do not have the transparency on the implementational side of what will happen when vaccines come. In other countries mass vaccination campaigns are the norm. I have not heard plans in Canada for the development of mass vaccination campaigns, and there need to be.

I'll give you an example. Bangladesh vaccinated over 50 million children in three weeks—one of the poorest countries on earth. Why am I not hearing a Canadian plan to vaccinate millions in a few weeks? Why isn't that transparent? Either it doesn't exist or it's hidden. Either way, I'm not given to good sleep at night.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I guess the question for us is going to be this. If we finally actually do get the vaccines, and we need foreign help to do so, are we going to need foreign help to administer them to our own citizens as well? This is what it's coming to.

I really worry that there doesn't seem to be a plan. You can check out what Australia is doing and what's going on in other places. Across from me, in Detroit, Michigan, they are doing them right now through the drugstores. That's two kilometres from where I am right now, where they have drugstores, chain stores, grocery stores, hospitals, massive clinics. This is how real it is. I know Canadians are flying to Alaska and Florida, but right now you can get in your car and be over to a place and get vaccinated, if you could cross the border, in less than, I guess, 10 minutes. That's really what it would take to get across there. This is very difficult for people to accept.

Thank you, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you, MP Masse.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Rempel Garner.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you, Chair.

Look, this has been a disaster. We are not in a great situation. I'm concerned about how we move forward as a country. There will be time for finger pointing and partisan politics later. We need to move forward and we need a plan.

From what I've heard today from witnesses, I've been trying to summarize some recommendations on how we can move forward. I'd like to put them out there and I'd just like the witnesses to indicate general agreement or disagreement with them. If what we're managing is to build enough domestic manufacturing capacity for, I'll say specifically mRNA vaccines by the end of 2021, this is what I've heard to date.

We need to disband the vaccine task force and reconstruct it with people who do not have conflicts of interests, that is, personal or commercial interests in any specific vaccine.

We need to ensure that the certification process for domestic manufacturing capacity doesn't sacrifice scientific review quality, doesn't happen slowly but quickly, and is adequately resourced. We would need some administrative oversight of that immediately.

We probably need some sort of special cabinet committee or some sort of direct link into the cabinet process for manufacturers who are undergoing this process, so that they're not experiencing the type of political inertia that Mr. Sorenson's company did.

We need to structure our manufacturing capacity not just around one type of vaccine platform, but around the clinically proven capacity to respond to variants in a quick period of time.

We should be undertaking an expedited, right-now review process to eliminate unnecessary red tape around increasing production capacity, as well as a review of Canadian-made products, and institute a fund to expedite infrastructure and certification with a quick yes-or-no process for eligible Canadian manufacturing capacity.

Does that sound right?

I will start with Mr. Sorenson.

[Brad Sorenson]

Yes, I agree with those recommendations.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Lexchin.

[Dr. Joel Lexchin]

Yes, with the exception that if we're going to expedite the approval of vaccines, we need to also ensure that post-market testing is done to ensure at least short-term safety.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Absolutely. I want to be very clear that I don't think we should sacrifice safety at all or the review process. I just think we can probably have our cake and eat it too, and do it quickly and safely.

Mr. Lamarre.

[Alain Lamarre]

I agree with all your suggestions.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Casey.

[Andrew Casey]

I seem to be alone. I think the task force was strong. I think they did great work. I'm not convinced we need to amend it. I don't think the pool is deep and wide enough in Canada to avoid some of what are perceived to be conflicts of interest. But—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Surely we could bring international experts in—

[Andrew Casey]

Can we add more? Absolutely, but I think your focus is entirely correct. We have to start to look forward in the immediate future with the variants and the mutations, and then prepare for the longer term, and—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Attaran.

[Prof. Amir Attaran]

I love your plan. I'd make two changes.

One, do not bet on mRNA vaccines only—danger, danger, danger. By the way, I personally don't—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

But we shouldn't be betting on just adenovirus either. Isn't that right? We need to have—