Evidence of meeting #17 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was vaccines.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
I had read that it's not fully operational, but it's still pumping out millions of AstraZeneca doses.
12:10 p.m.
Prof. Amir Attaran
No. Actually, the AstraZeneca doses are being arranged through a consortium out of Oxford Biomedica and Cobra Biologics, separate from that 2018 investment.
Sir John Bell, the Regius professor of medicine at Oxford and the developer of the vaccine, spoke on this—he's Canadian, by the way, from Alberta—to Evan Solomon. I highly recommend that you watch that interview. That is what we should have done.
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you, Professor Attaran.
This is just a gentle reminder to members and witnesses. Please make sure to not cut each other off because the translators have trouble keeping up and hearing what you're trying to say if you're talking over each other.
Mr. Lemire, you have five minutes.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Unfortunately, I only have two and a half minutes, I think.
My question is for Mr. Lamarre.
Can you tell us how important it is to generously fund research funds, particularly for basic research, in order to develop a quality ecosystem that will once again attract multinational pharmaceutical companies?
12:10 p.m.
Full professor, As an Individual
Thank you, Mr. Lemire. That is an excellent question.
I believe that it was Mr. Lexchin who said earlier that the investments from the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the CIHR, amount to $1 billion per year. On a per capita basis, medical research in Canada is funded four times less than in the United States. The same goes for research in the natural sciences and engineering.
For decades, investments in basic research have plateaued, while more and more researchers in Canada are attracted by the very good working conditions and access to infrastructures in the Canadian Foundation for Innovation, the CFI, and in the Canada Research Chairs program. So we have more and more researchers and less and less funding. Consequently, success rates have dropped dramatically in recent years.
In order to keep our good researchers, we have to keep investing and doing so massively. We have been falling behind for 20 years and we must catch up.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Your strategy is certainly very long term. We must invest in order to be prepared for pandemics to come. That will be the key in the future.
Can you give us some more details about your proposal to speed up the development of vaccines?
12:10 p.m.
Full professor, As an Individual
The structure would be public, not private. We would therefore not be dependent on one company that might decide overnight to close its doors and set up elsewhere. The structure would be public and not-for-profit. The objective would be to push technologies forward in terms of industrial capacity and clinical trials. All clinical development could be done within that structure. Of course, the same would go for the funding. That's kind of the way I see things.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
It would be important to diversify the sources of technology in that situation.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
Our next round of questions goes to MP Masse.
You have the floor for two and a half minutes.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I'm going to return to Mr. Lexchin.
With regard to your recommendations and the current construct of the task force, are you confident that we could see our way through the future with the current task force and the structure it has, or do we need some revamping there with regard to getting to a position of less dependency in our country?
12:15 p.m.
Associate Professor, Department of Family and Community Medicine, Emergency Medicine Division, University of Toronto, As an Individual
Let me refer you to recommendations from the United States, from what used to be called the Institute of Medicine; now it's the National Academy of Medicine. It came up with recommendations with regard to constructing political practice guidelines. These are sets of recommendations for doctors as to how to diagnose and treat conditions.
Two of the recommendations are relevant to the task force that we have. The first one is that the chairs of any clinical development guideline committee should not have any conflicts of interest. Both of the chairs of the vaccine task force have significant conflicts of interest. We need to worry about that. Secondly, it said that at least half of the members of any committee should not have conflicts. I think that around half of the members of the current task force have conflicts.
Again, we are not complying with those guidelines. Those are American guidelines, but they're recognized in many countries. Continuing with a task force is a good idea, but we need to restructure the task force to remove the conflicts of interest. It will create trust in the recommendations they are making.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Mr. Attaran, we have to look toward the future here. Do you have any comments about improving the task force, or a revamp on the entire model?
12:15 p.m.
Prof. Amir Attaran
Disband it and start over. It clearly made fundamental mistakes. We're living with them right now.
Disband it. Reappoint it. Make everything transparent: the meeting minutes, the agendas of the meetings, the conflicts of interest.
If I publish a paper in the lowest-grade medical journal, I have to disclose all my conflicts of interest. These people are making the highest stakes decisions in the country right now, and they haven't fully disclosed their conflicts of interest. Something's wrong there.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Our next round of questions goes to Mr. Dreeshen
You have the floor for five minutes.
12:15 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Thank you very much, Madam Chair.
I certainly wish we could have had these witnesses here prior to our meetings with the ministers. That would have certainly helped us focus our discussions.
I was going to ask about the vaccine task force, but the comments Mr. Attaran just made and having those on the record is probably good enough.
My next question will be to Mr. Attaran. We recently heard that the member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River, who is a medical doctor, sent a message to his colleagues, indicating that the Liberal government's pandemic response has been so secretive that it's hard to have faith, and it's difficult to accept reassurances that Canada's doing all the right things.
My question has to do with the secrecy. It has to do with the reason why Canada can't seem to find its way to discuss contract information with suppliers, yet other countries can.
You also mentioned, at the end of your presentation, that you're not confident that good ideas are even being heard by the government, which is critical for our security. Could you expand on those comments?
12:15 p.m.
Prof. Amir Attaran
The fundamental failure of this government is that it has the wrong people in charge. I mentioned in my testimony the folly of putting a vaccine strategy in the hands of the industry minister and the procurement minister, not the health ministry where the scientists are. Across the board, this government doesn't utilize the people it has well. I'll point to some stars. There is Kirsty Duncan on the Liberal side of the House. She did a Ph.D. on pandemics. She's not involved. It's absurd.
Ms. Jaczek, you were a public health officer for many years. I don't see you directing, and I kind of wish you were.
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Professor Attaran, I ask that you put your questions through the chair, please.
12:20 p.m.
Prof. Amir Attaran
It wasn't a question; it was a comment.
Anyway, your point on secrecy is very well taken. The United States, Brazil and the 27 European Union countries have, to some extent, disclosed their contracts with vaccine manufacturers. Canada hasn't. One of those—the one with Moderna—will eventually become public because of U.S. disclosure to the Securities and Exchange Commission. It's absurd that we're relying on American law and American regulatory mechanisms to get us transparency about what's happening in Canada.
It's very simple. If you take high stakes decisions secretly, behind closed doors, without peer review, without peers in the field able to view what's happening and offer constructive criticism, you end up in a dead end after bad decisions are made. Science turns on peer review. That is its lifeblood. In this life-saving moment, or not, peers are not entitled to review what the government is doing. It is shocking. It is negligent, and it is the result of our failure in very considerable part.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Thank you.
I'd like to talk now to both Mr. Sorenson and Mr. Gerdts because, of course, we're in this situation where the provinces are saying, “Let us get engaged here.” Of course, if they don't know what is in a contract between the federal government and the various manufacturers, it makes it very difficult for them, and for your organizations as well, to get there.
Mr. Gerdts, I probably know a lot more veterinarians than I do doctors, so I'm curious to have you talk somewhat about the significance of the research you've done—African swine fever and other types of issues—and how quickly you've been able to gear up to handle those other types of clinical issues as well.
12:20 p.m.
Director and Chief Executive Officer, VIDO-InterVac
We've been working on animal diseases for 45 years and we made a number of coronavirus vaccines that were licensed and commercialized for other species. When SARS-1 came, we were part of the Canadian accelerated vaccine initiative at the time. We were just doing research on MERS before the pandemic hit, so we have a lot of expertise in working on these viruses. As you know, they affect animals and humans. We live in a one health world. We have a lot of expertise working with these, and that was really the reason our vaccine went forward so quickly.
12:20 p.m.
Conservative
Earl Dreeshen Conservative Red Deer—Mountain View, AB
Thank you.
Mr. Sorenson, you've mentioned that Providence has the ability to scale up manufacturing, but again, you're looking at arrangements that you would have with the provinces. Is there any hope of co-operation?
12:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
I apologize. You've gone a little over time. Hopefully in the next round we'll be able to get that answer.
We now go to MP Jaczek. You have the floor for five minutes.
February 16th, 2021 / 12:20 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses. This is certainly a stimulating committee meeting.
My first question is for Mr. Sorenson.
Mr. Sorenson, could you detail to us the funds you've received from the federal government?
12:20 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Providence Therapeutics
As of December 31, 2020, Providence had received $878,182 from NRC and $350,000 from NGen. Thus far in 2021, we have received an additional $907,648 from the NRC. All told, Providence has received just over $2 million, cumulatively and as of today, from the federal government.