Industry Committee on March 11th, 2021

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Insurance cost increases or anything else, you will absorb them and still fly to those regions and return to them.

[Andy Gibbons]

The most concerning issue with respect to Nav Canada for us right now is the 30% increase in fees, which will hurt your constituents in their ability to travel.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes.

[Andy Gibbons]

That is the number one concern with Nav Canada today, and the government needs to take action to fix that.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I hear that. I've been critical of the government many times in this committee—members know that—but, to be fair to the government, what we heard from Nav Canada's president is that they laid off people. They paid out bonuses to their managers. When I asked if they got a support package from the government, they wouldn't commit to not providing more bonuses.

There is a real corporate problem at Nav Canada, I think, since it's privatization. Furthermore, how can Canadians in good conscience want to provide the bonus money for people right now as they are laying off workers? I think that's the problem that Nav Canada faces in the public. I think that's an issue that the government faces as well, to support things.

At the same time, what benefit is it really for WestJet if over a few jobs—really, this is what it's about at the end of the day—we lose air traffic controllers and those people find jobs or quit the industry and don't come back? Aren't you worried about the loss of those skilled people, not only in those smaller regions but across Canada?

[Andy Gibbons]

Absolutely. Sorry. I hope you weren't confused by my answer. We are 100% in solidarity with people who are suffering job losses in any part of our supply chain: airports, aerospace partners, our own company. There is no area of our business and our supply chain that is not completely devastated, so we have great sympathy and solidarity with employees who are losing their jobs because of this downturn.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Sorry, MP Masse, but you are out of time.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Poilievre.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Gibbons, your company, WestJet, has said that your preference is not government bailouts. Rather, you want it to use technology in order to safely reopen the business.

The whole situation reminds me of an old expression. A wise man once said that if it moves, the government taxes it. If it keeps moving, the government regulates it. When it stops moving, the government subsidizes it.

It sounds like the government is, through its mismanagement of the COVID issue, grinding WestJet's business to a halt and then saying that the solution is to bail out the damage that the government itself caused.

Can you tell me whether there are other countries where they have successfully deployed technology to allow the safe reopening of the airline business without the enormous cost we have witnessed here in Canada?

[Andy Gibbons]

Thank you very much for your question, Mr. Poilievre. It's great to see you.

I have a few comments on this. You are right. A safe restart is our priority. Wage supports are our priority. Our priority is not additional debt or loans at this time. That was the subject of the letter all the committee members received from our CEO before Christmas, so we have been pretty clear about that. Then again, I need to repeat that our negotiations are under NDA.

With respect to who has unlocked this equation, we have a policy answer here at home in Alberta. In Alberta, the Public Health Agency of Canada and Dr. Hinshaw worked on a pilot that reduced quarantine and effectively tested. It was a very innovative project, and it was specifically designed, Mr. Poilievre, to answer the question we face today in Canada, which is how we safely restart.

Dr. Hinshaw has given great testimony about how that pilot actually caught the variant and helped limit the spread of the variant. So, when we look at the policy answers, we think the application of that pilot as a national policy for May 1 is probably the most logical because it—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Basically what happened here, for people who might not know, is that there was rapid testing at the airport in order to identify transmission and then to allow the efficient circulation of air traffic. Is that a good summary?

[Andy Gibbons]

That is a good summary. Just a note on “rapid”; it was a PCR test. If you were landing in Calgary from Las Vegas, Mr. Poilievre, you would take your test at the Calgary airport. You would go home. You would have to present a quarantine plan, but upon receipt of your negative test, you would be released from quarantine, but importantly, you had conditions.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Right. Logically, if you don't have the virus, then you can't spread the virus. Is that the logic here?

[Andy Gibbons]

I'm not an epidemiologist. I can just describe the process for our travellers, and this is important. The process was that, yes, you were released from quarantine, but it was conditional. You couldn't visit homes for the elderly. You couldn't be a part of a group larger than x. You couldn't return to school or work for a period of time, but you weren't in a hotel.

We think there are better solutions.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

It looks like what has happened here is the government has smashed this industry, like so many others, with a sledgehammer when, in fact, they could have used a more surgical approach to target the problem, which is the transmission of the virus while allowing the free flow of safe commerce to go on paying the bills.

Is that a good summary?

[Andy Gibbons]

I would say the last year has been difficult navigating government policy, Mr. Poilievre. A lot of the policies have been implemented in a chaotic environment, and, let's be fair, COVID is chaotic. It has been chaotic. Good people are reacting in good faith to events, but that's all the more reason we wanted testing regimes and felt they were so important—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

When did you first begin those testing regimes?

[Andy Gibbons]

At the onset of the pandemic.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

A year ago.

[Andy Gibbons]

Since the onset of the pandemic, our industry and our partners have been pretty clear that testing is a priority and an essential ingredient.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

It was a year ago that your business came up with a solution to allow for the safe and slow restart of your sector without transmitting the virus, and the government has yet to properly implement it. No wonder we have the highest unemployment rate in the G7.

Thank you very much, Mr. Gibbons.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Mr. Poilievre.

Our last round of questions will go to MP Lambropoulos.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd like to thank all of our witnesses for being here to answer questions today.

I'm not an epidemiologist and I'm not a doctor, but I've spoken to several epidemiologists and doctors with regard to this pandemic, and it is clear that, even if you take a test one day and it comes back negative, it doesn't mean that the virus is not in your system and that it won't show up a bit later. I definitely see a danger in allowing people to go home, getting that negative test, and then releasing them from quarantine.

That being said, the government has done its best to make sure that Canadians stay safe, and the government has prioritized that above all else and has obviously tried to be a support for people who have lost their jobs and for companies that are laying off people or trying to stay afloat during this time.

I understand that airlines are probably the hardest-hit sector of industry in the Canadian economy right now. I hear that the government needs to step in and play a greater role in helping airlines, and I agree with that.

I heard Mr. Balducchi talk about other countries that are supporting airlines. I was wondering if you could give us some best practices of other countries, if you have that information on hand, so that we can possibly recommend that in the future.

[Andy Gibbons]

Was that for me or Mr. Balducchi?

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Either Mr. Gibbons or Mr. Balducchi can answer that question.