Industry Committee on March 23rd, 2021

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Hopefully they have heard that today.

Are there other red tape issues, though, that you are concerned about as far as your actual work in maintenance is concerned?

[Tracy Medve]

It's not really red tape. We're used to living in a regulated industry. I know part of my comment was to also get you to recognize that when we talk about this industry, we're not just talking about the airlines. We are talking about all the back-end providers who support that industry.

As an MRO provider, we often really feel as though we're forgotten and nobody really understands how it is that these airplanes can fly around safely. It's because we have this cadre of people who are there working on the airplanes.

Sometimes the policy-making really stops at the carriers' door. We think carriers like Air Canada should come to Canadian MRO providers first. That was the point I was trying to make.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I realize that I don't have very much time left. I just want to make a comment, though, to Mr. Oehrli.

You had four recommendations that you said were simple. They need a bit of explanation, though, because they're not easy to understand. I'd certainly appreciate the chance for you to present that to the committee so that we have something we can work on during our report.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Oehrli, perhaps you could prepare a briefing on those four points and send it to the clerk so he can circulate amongst the committee. That would be very helpful. Thank you.

[Stéphane Oehrli]

Absolutely, it would be my pleasure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you.

Our next round goes to MP Jowhari. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses. It was quite informative.

Once again, I'm going to go back to Mr. Donald and Madam Medve, and hopefully I'll bring everyone else into this conversation.

As I was listening, it was quite clear that the lack of training capacity, as well as retention, is an issue that industry as a whole is dealing with. While I was listening, I also noticed that if you look at the landscape of who we are working with to address this issue, we have the government, which is providing funding and incentives and also providing regulations to Transport Canada. We have the industry, which is doing the R and D and is doing some training opportunities. It's also, through the extended supply chain, providing the jobs. We have the labour skills group representatives here for the council, and they're doing a great job of advocating on behalf of their members. We also have, probably.... The educational institutions are missing and also the airlines.

When you look at all these stakeholders, whether they're government, industry, labour, skills, advocacy groups, educational institutions or airlines, my question to the group—and, again, I will start with Mr. Donald and then Madam Medve and then go back to the rest—is this. What can we do as part of a partnership model to be able to address the issue of the training capacity, as well as the retention?

I'll start with Mr. Donald.

[Robert Donald]

Thank you, Mr. Jowhari.

I'll digress for just a second.

As I alluded to a little bit earlier, I think the most useful thing that the government could do right now is to lay out a road map with industry. This isn't for public consumption, but it's sitting down with the airlines, the MROs, the manufacturers, and laying out a road map for the reopening of our industry.

I don't know what conversations have gone on with Air Canada, WestJet and others, but the more they understand what's going to be required to lift quarantine restrictions, etc., the more I think they can then turn to Tracy, KF Aerospace and others to start planning how they're going to bring back their workforces and how they're going to bring back their airlines. I think that would be the most useful thing that could be done.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

How does that address the inability to be able to build the capacity for training? Wouldn't the training be mainly between the institutions, as well as a partnership with the industry and probably your council, to build that capacity that is, right now, in shortage?

[Robert Donald]

As I said, I apologize for the digression. I just wanted to make that point.

In terms of increasing capacity, I think what we have to move to is more workplace-integrated learning, continuous workplace-integrated learning using new tools, virtual reality, online and blended, so that industry can put in place its own training programs that aren't dependent on Transport Canada-approved colleges.

I think that's a necessary conclusion—that we don't have the capacity—and I don't believe governments will fund the increased capacity, so I think we have to turn to industry and provide it with the tools to allow it to train its own workforce, microcredentially, with online learning and those types of tools that, frankly, our council is working on and developing with ESDC. However, we need recognition by Transport Canada to do that.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

From a Transport Canada point of view, you need an updating of the regulations, a review of the new training approach and then basically their approval of it.

[Robert Donald]

That's correct—and moving to competency-based learning instead of hours-based learning. If a student finishes a three-hour project in class in an hour, that student has to sit there for two hours doing nothing because the teacher has to recognize the three hours. We need competency-based new rules.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

With about 30 seconds to go—

[Robert Donald]

I apologize.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

No, that's okay. I'm trying to bring it back to the industry to ask this: What type of commitment do you need from the industry, from what I call the extended value chain or the extended supply chain, in support of those types of training?

[Robert Donald]

Hopefully, industry will come on board. We have a number of companies, including KF, that have come on board to say that, yes, they're willing to work on developing continuous workplace learning training. Hopefully, if we can get a good pilot project going, industry picks up on it and Transport Canada approves it, we will increase our capacity without increasing the spend by government.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We will start our third round of questions.

The first round goes to MP Poilievre. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you very much.

My question is for Mr. Wudrick.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

My apologies. MP Poilievre, do you have your headset?

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

I do not.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Okay. Could you get closer to the mike, please, and I'll restart the clock.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Yes. Can you hear me now, Madam Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

One moment. I'm checking with the interpretation services. I will hold the clock.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

The interpretation is working well, Madam Chair.