Industry Committee on April 27th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

I now call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 34 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of January 25. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. Just so that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking, rather than the entire committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I would like to outline a few rules to follow. Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of either the floor, English or French. Please select your preference now. I'll remind you that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are not speaking, please make sure that your microphone is on mute.

As is my normal practice, I will hold up a yellow card when you have 30 seconds left in your intervention. I will hold up a red card when your time for questions has expired. Please keep your screen in gallery view so that you can see me waving the card. As we have a tight schedule today due to votes in the House, I will ask that you please respect the time allocated to you.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on November 5, 2020, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology is meeting today to begin its study on the green economic recovery from COVID-19.

I would like to now welcome our witnesses. We have Mr. Brian O'Callaghan, lead of the economic recovery project, Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment, University of Oxford; Ms. Christina Franc, executive director, Canadian Association of Fairs and Exhibitions; Mr. Dave Carey, vice-president, government and industry relations, Canadian Canola Growers Association; Mr. Daniel Breton, president and chief executive officer, Electric Mobility Canada; Priyanka Lloyd, executive director, Green Economy Canada; and from the Toronto Community Benefits Network, we have Ms. Rosemarie Powell, executive director, and Kumsa Baker, campaigns director.

Each witness will present for up to five minutes followed by rounds of questions.

With that, we will start with Professor O'Callaghan. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Brian O'Callaghan, Lead of the Economic Recovery Project, Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment, University of Oxford, As an Individual]

Thank you very much, Ms. Chair.

Thank you to the standing committee for the humbling invitation to testify.

I'm speaking today in my role as lead of the Oxford University economic recovery project here at the Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment in Oxford.

Put simply, periods of economic downturn like we've just seen are the most poignant opportunities for economic rebirth. It's at these moments that governments have the greatest licence, and indeed the greatest imperative, to intervene in their market systems. Right now we have an opportunity to reshape the future of our countries to grow more and to do so equitably and sustainably.

The question is, in recovery, will we prioritize the industries of the past, those that are clearly on the decline and where we are losing competitiveness, or the industries of the future in which we can build long-term competitive advantage and enduring prosperity?

Our work at Oxford has considered primarily the economic characteristics of different policy options available to governments in response to the COVID-19 pandemic. On this basis, we advise leaders of nations, development agencies and businesses around the world.

In short, we found that policies that support a transition to a clean, more equitable, and often more digitalized, society can also provide higher short-term economic gains. By spending on green initiatives, we can create more jobs and induce greater economic growth in the short term while also driving long-term prosperity.

In May of 2020, I looked deeper into green investment with Oxford's Professor Cameron Hepburn, Nobel Prize winner Professor Joseph Stiglitz, eminent economist Professor Lord Nicholas Stern and Dimitri Zenghelis.

In our paper we surveyed over 230 leading economists representing central banks, finance ministries and the epitome of academia to understand what types of fiscal responses to the pandemic had the highest potential to boost the economy. The study found that there are industries that have both high economic growth multipliers and high positive climate impacts. Leading investment options included support for clean energy, green building efficiency retrofits, natural capital, clean research and development, and vitally, green worker retraining initiatives, which is an area I'd encourage questions on.

Subsequently we've been tracking how governments are spending and engaging on that, trying to understand the social, economic and environmental components of their spending. This is in partnership with the IMF, UNDP, UNEP, PAGE and the German Agency for International Cooperation. All of this is under the title of the “Global Recovery Observatory”, which you can find quite easily online.

In the Global Recovery Observatory, you'll see Canada compared with the world. In total we tally around $29 billion in COVID-related green spending in Canada, which is an encouraging number and does show some commendable foresight on the part of the government. However, this remains far below international commitments. For example, in 2020 alone, we saw almost $60 billion in France, over $40 billion in the U.K. and, of course, Canada's neighbour to the south looks to be stepping up the game substantially, moving into the hundreds of billions, if not towards the trillion mark, in green spending.

Canada has also unfortunately announced some of the few dirty policies in the world. By “dirty” I mean climate negative, which is a poor mark on the country's record. Given the context of the economic advantages of green spending I described, they are a little bit difficult to understand.

Today, as an engineer turned acting economist, I've framed my evidence on economic grounds, yet any responsible parliamentarian also understands that future prosperity is about more than economics. Future prosperity is built on innovation, good jobs and growth, but also on a cohesive society with a stable climate and healthy ecosystems and landscapes.

Here, too, the overwhelming weight of academic evidence is positive for green investment. In short, targeted and well-designed policy can reduce inequalities while also pulling the handbrake on climate change.

In my final 30 seconds, I have one final appeal. Canada needs to again look beyond its own borders as well, reclaiming a position of leadership in support of the world's most vulnerable nations. The gap between the most developed countries like Canada and the least developed countries who we engage with was enormous prior to COVID-19 and is only growing.

In response to the virus, we've seen over $12,000 spent per person in developed nations. In the least developed countries, it's $10 per person. There's an opportunity to pair climate spending with development assistance, and I encourage Canada to take a leading role in that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Ms. Christina Franc.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Christina Franc, Executive Director, Canadian Association of Fairs and Exhibitions]

Thank you.

Thank you so much for having me here today. It's great to see some familiar faces.

For almost 100 years, CAFE has focused on helping our 743 organizations reach their full potential. We do this primarily by organizing a variety of professional development opportunities and advocating for our industry's interests.

Our not-for-profit organizations offer their grounds as shelter when there are floods, or as vaccine or testing sites right now. We work with community organizations like the Lions Club or fire departments to host their fundraisers. We host a whole slew of other programming, such as summer camps, socials, dances, rodeos, concerts, representing more than 17,000 events per year across Canada. These are organized by an estimated 130,000-plus volunteers who see 35 million visitors annually. These events have an estimated annual impact of $2.9 billion on the Canadian economy. We're more than just a fair. We are community events and cultural hubs that are often older than Canada itself.

When we look at how we can green our infrastructure and programming, I want to highlight that our industry has its own little ecosystem. The fair organizations are supported by thousands of small businesses, concessionaires, food trucks, artisans and the list goes on. When we put an eye on sustainable practices, we also need to pay attention to all of these assets.

One of the main challenges coming out of recovery will be the need to rebuild stakeholder confidence in mass gatherings—when the time is right. One way to do that is by integrating green initiatives into our organization. This will have a domino effect, supporting our growth by giving us increased capacity to host expanded programming and draw in new audiences.

Our first recommendation is to provide sustainable retrofitting and capital grants that target aging infrastructure. Our industry has almost 2,000 facilities across Canada that would cost an estimated $3.1 billion to replace, so repair and maintenance is crucial. This, however, presents unique challenges that end up being more costly. When designing a sustainable upgrade, we see additional costs to bring buildings up to code, to make them all-season with insulation and other measures, and to sometimes tear down in order to rebuild components. As such, in order for us to be able to take advantage of them, any sustainable retrofitting grants need to take into account the whole process. Without launching massive fundraising campaign, operating those non-profits means we don't have significant surpluses to put towards any major initiative, including capital projects.

Our second recommendation is to support green innovation projects at events, particularly in rural areas. We have a chance to showcase new sustainable technologies and practices, and to educate Canadians, similar to what we are proud to do with agriculture.

We are already starting to lead by example by diverting waste at events. The Canadian National Exhibition alone diverted 86% of the waste from landfills in 2019. The Armstrong IPE launched a composting initiative for their event in 2015, and it has seen exponential growth, from diverting 1,250 pounds in its first year to more than 20,000 pounds in 2019. They also diverted 45,000 plastic bottles by providing water refill stations at their events.

These programs take special signage and equipment, volunteers and staff. To expand these and other innovative projects across Canada at all of our events, support from the federal government is critical. In addition, we need to think about the green initiatives of our service providers. Whether it be powering their equipment through alternative energy sources on the road and at their events or diverting their own waste, they need equal support.

Our third recommendation is to provide tax credits to implement green initiatives. As an example, a major Canadian entertainment company is already committing to a minimum of 50% recycled materials for all their assets in 2021—wardrobe, props, etc.—as well as 25% recycled material for their merchandise. These are all incremental changes that our service providers and our industry are taking or can take to support sustainability, and they could be easily rewarded with tax credits.

Finally, we recommend providing industry-specific training on greening your business or organization. Our organizations are resource-strapped. We have dedicated volunteers who have done well in the past when they were given specified training, tools and templates to lead new initiatives in their own organization. For example, CAFE offered a series of educational courses to our industry on best practices to mitigate the spread of enteric pathogens. Similarly, we are currently developing a program to educate our community on best practices in animal care at public events. In both cases, participants walk away with a workbook and a foundation to develop their own plans and programs using metrics and targets and with the support of the national body and the federal government.

Federal support for training and education will help our organizations understand the importance of sustainability, activate innovation and develop best practices with a clear road map. Ultimately, we need to see language in these proposed programs that is inclusive of our community organizations and their events, specifically referencing agricultural fairs, exhibitions and event organizations.

We are so pleased to see the standing committee looking to recovery as an opportunity to build a better Canada. We look forward to being a part of the process.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

We will now turn to Mr. Dave Carey.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Dave Carey, Vice-President, Government and Industry Relations, Canadian Canola Growers Association]

Thank you.

Thank you for the invitation to appear before this committee today on this important study.

My organization, the Canadian Canola Growers Association, represents 43,000 canola farmers from Ontario to British Columbia on national and international issues, policies and programs that impact their farm's success. CCGA is also the largest administrator of the federal government's advance payments program, providing cash advances to help farmers better market their crops and finance their operations.

Canola is a staple of Canadian agriculture as well as Canadian science and innovation. Today it is Canada's most widely planted crop and the largest farm cash receipt of any agricultural commodity, earning Canadian farmers $10.2 billion in 2020. Annually our sector contributes $29.9 billion to the Canadian economy and provides for 207,000 jobs.

Exports drive canola's success. More than 90% of the canola grown in Canada is exported as seed, oil or meal. COVID-19 has demonstrated the critical role played by agriculture and agri-food as an essential industry. Agriculture, and canola production in particular, has helped spur our economy during the recent pandemic and economic downturn. However, there are areas for improvement domestically and on the export front to help further canola’s ability to sustainably grow Canadian prosperity.

The first area concerns regulatory modernization and innovation and the Canada Grain Act. The government must finalize the review of the Canadian Grain Commission and modernize the Canada Grain Act to ensure that Canada's grain quality system aligns with the modern grain trading environment. Updates to the act are essential to reflect the significant changes to both farming and grain marketing over the last 40 years.

The next area is gene editing. Health Canada recently launched consultations on new regulatory guidance around such plant-breeding innovation as gene editing. This is a positive step for canola farmers. Our country has long been a leader in plant-breeding innovation, but our current regulations around plant breeding find us lagging behind countries like Japan, Australia and the United States and Latin America. The future competitiveness and sustainability of Canadian farms rely on a regulatory system that supports such new plant-breeding techniques as gene editing.

The Pest Management Regulatory Agency, or PMRA, requires consistent, reliable, robust and impartial data to fulfill its mandate as a science-based regulatory body. We strongly support the creation of a pan-Canadian water-monitoring program housed within the PMRA. Without accurate data to make science-based decisions, Canada could be perceived as a jurisdiction with increasingly high levels of regulatory uncertainty, thereby disincentivizing registrants from commercializing chemistries in Canada that ultimately help with our sustainability efforts.

Around domestic diversification and biofuels, to hedge against international market volatility, increasing the amount of canola used in biofuel will help create a stable domestic market for canola. Utilization of canola-based biofuels through the clean fuel regulation, or CFR, could create a new domestic market equal to or greater than the size of our Japanese export market, around 1.3 million tonnes of canola. It could also help Canada significantly reduce our greenhouse gas emissions by approximately 3.5 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent a year—approximately one million cars.

To realize the potential economic and environmental benefits of canola-based biofuels, the final CFR, which will reach the Canada Gazette, part II, this fall, we must ensure that it grants full aggregate compliance to Canadian and U.S. farmers and that canola's low-carbon advantage is reflected in the life-cycle analysis model.

Last, around international trade, farmers are well positioned to provide safe, reliable canola supplies both domestically and to the world, but we require a rules-based, predictable framework to grow our exports. Promoting this framework will be even more important to counter protectionist policies post-COVID-19 as countries turn inwards. Trade is key to the world's economic recovery, and modernization of the World Trade Organization is essential to ensure that borders and supply chains remain open.

CCGA and the Canadian Agri-Food Trade Alliance are advocating for the creation of a chief of trade implementation position at Global Affairs Canada to strengthen Canada's capacity to monitor and mobilize resources to fully implement and capitalize on existing free trade agreements. We're also requesting the creation of an Asian diversification office that has the capacity and mandate to proactively prevent and resolve market access challenges in Asia, as 60% of the global population resides in Asia. Increasing disposable income and changing food requirements make canola an attractive option for seed, oil and meal. As well, for the canola sector to achieve its full potential, reopening the China market must remain a priority.

We appreciate the opportunity to speak with this committee today. We look forward to questions on canola sustainability targets.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Mr. Carey.

We will now turn to Daniel Breton.

Mr. Breton, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Daniel Breton, President and Chief Executive Officer, Electric Mobility Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning. We want to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology for its study on green economic recovery from COVID-19.

My name is Daniel Breton and I'm the president and chief executive officer of Electric Mobility Canada, or EMC.

Founded in 2006, Electric Mobility Canada is one of the first organizations in the world dedicated to electric mobility. Our members include electricity providers, mining companies, vehicle manufacturers, charging infrastructure providers, technology companies, research facilities, cities, universities, fleet managers, unions, and non-governmental organizations, or NGOs.

Electric Mobility Canada is the national organization with the most experience and expertise to help drive the discussion, regulations and projects related to transportation electrification in Canada.

According to the 2021 ECCC report, Canada’s GHG emissions have decreased by only 1% in the 14 years between 2005 and 2019. Now that Canada’s new target is to lower our GHG emissions between 40% and 45% by 2030 compared with our 2005 emissions, this means that we will have to lower our greenhouse gas emissions by at least 39% in nine years, which is both ambitious and feasible.

According to a recently released report by Health Canada, the total economic cost of all of the health impacts from air pollution for the year is $120 billion. This is the equivalent to about 6% of Canada's real gross domestic product in 2016. It represents 15,300 premature deaths, which is eight times the death toll of car accidents in Canada. In addition to being a major emitter of GHGs, transportation is also a significant source of air pollution in Canada, accounting for 31% of its black carbon emissions, 33% of its carbon monoxide emissions and 41% of its nitrogen oxide emissions.

According to the Electric Vehicle Outlook 2020 from Bloomberg New Energy Finance, EV growth, from passenger cars to light trucks to heavy duty trucks, will be exponential in the years to come. Passenger EV sales jumped from 450,000 in 2015 to 2.1 million in 2019. They are expected to reach 8.5 million in 2025 and 26 million by 2030. Worldwide EV sales should grow from 2.7% in 2020 to 10% in 2025, 28% in 2030 and 58% or more in 2040.

According to a newly released report by TD Economics, it is estimated that by 2050 between 312,000 and 450,000 of Canada’s current 600,000 direct and indirect jobs in oil and gas could become casualties of falling demand for fossil fuel as more countries and companies commit to net-zero greenhouse gas emissions.

According to another report from Clean Energy Canada, there will be approximately 560,000 clean jobs by 2030. Almost 50% of these jobs will be in clean transportation.

According to a 2020 analysis by Electric Mobility Canada, a Canadian electric mobility strategy inspired by those of B.C., Quebec or California, could generate up to $200 billion in revenue between 2021 and 2030.

Therefore, accelerating the transition to zero-emission vehicles from light to heavy duty will help save thousands of lives and billions of dollars for Canadian taxpayers every year while creating quality Canadian jobs from B.C. to Atlantic Canada.

As we come out of the COVID-19 crisis, will Canada take advantage of the fight against climate change and air pollution to create jobs through a recovery plan in a high-tech sector such as electric mobility, or will Canadians have to import all of their electric vehicles, batteries and technologies from elsewhere and therefore miss the boat on high quality, high-paying, long-term jobs?

At EMC, we are convinced that, with all its expertise plus its natural and human resources, Canada is in a perfect position to become a world leader in electric mobility in partnership with our U.S. ally, but there is no time to waste since other regions like Europe and Asia are really accelerating their support towards the EV industrial revolution.

Lastly, Electric Mobility Canada, together with other Canadian industry stakeholders, will be announcing the launch of a Canadian electric vehicle supply chain alliance by June, to contribute to Canada's industrial transition. In addition, we'll soon be releasing a report on the current status of transportation electrification in Canada.

Over the next two hours, with your permission, Electric Mobility Canada can recommend seven ways to speed up economic recovery through electric mobility.

Thank you.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Ms. Lloyd.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Priyanka Lloyd, Executive Director, Green Economy Canada]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and members of the committee.

I appreciate the opportunity to appear today.

My name is Priyanka Lloyd, and I am the executive director of Green Economy Canada. I am pleased to join you from Waterloo, Ontario, which is the traditional territory of the Neutral, Anishinabe and Haudenosaunee peoples.

I'm here to share a perspective on how the government of Canada can help businesses across the country to recover in a stronger and more resilient way post-pandemic. In particular, the focus of my remarks will be on the importance of investment to support small businesses to thrive and become more competitive in a global shift to a low-carbon future.

Green Economy Canada is a national non-profit that supports a network of community-based green economy hubs across the country. These hubs are working with 300 businesses of all sectors and sizes to voluntarily take action on climate change and to build sustainability into their operations. Through our network's decade of experience, we have seen first hand how businesses can reduce their environmental impacts while increasing their profitability.

Small and medium-sized enterprises or SMEs make up more than 99% of businesses in Canada. They employ nine in 10 private-sector workers and contribute more than half of our GDP. These are the businesses in your communities; the coffee shops, restaurants, retail stores, and countless other seen and unseen businesses that form the backbone of our economy. However, despite the vital role that small businesses play in job creation and innovation, they've been chronically overlooked in how they can help Canada achieve its climate action goals and reap the benefits of a greener economy.

As we look to recover from the impacts of COVID-19, now more than ever, small businesses need every advantage possible to get back on solid ground. This includes the substantial benefits that they can get from greening their operations. Take these examples:

Your Credit Union is a small financial services co-operative in Ottawa. By installing a building automation system, they were able to shave 30% off their annual electricity bill.

Walker Emulsions is a wax and asphalt emulsions company in Burlington. They were able to save $43,000 per year by installing a water softener to reduce the build-up in their process heat exchangers.

VeriForm is a small steel and metal fabricator in Cambridge, Ontario. They have been investing in energy efficiency upgrades for over a decade and have saved over $2 million while doubling their facility size and expanding their workforce by 30%. These investments have also allowed VeriForm to weather shocks like U.S. steel and aluminum tariffs.

Permanently lowering operating costs helps businesses withstand economic downturns and leaves room to reinvest in jobs and growth, which keeps more dollars circulating in local communities. Multiply this impact across hundreds of thousands of small businesses and communities in Canada, and the result is not just recovery but growth, clean green growth.

Moreover, as countries around the world are making bold commitments to move towards a net-zero future, the ability of Canadian companies to produce and export our goods and services in a low-carbon way will be critical for us to remain competitive on the global stage.

Existing discussions on the recent federal budget have focused on loans, grants, and digitization supports to help SMEs to recover post-pandemic, but the new-normal demands that businesses are also reducing their carbon emissions to remain competitive and resilient.

Green recovery investments for businesses in the federal budget were targeted on heavy industry and clean-tech manufacturing. While these are important and needed, they do little for the vast majority of businesses in Canada. Without meaningful investments to support SMEs to seize the low-carbon advantage, this critical segment of our economy risks getting left behind and will find it difficult to adapt to key regulations like a $170 per tonne carbon price by 2030.

Moreover, small businesses will feel mounting pressure from larger organizations who are now aligning with net-zero emissions targets to demonstrate how they are reducing their emissions as part of an increased focus on greening the supply chain.

Based on the feedback from our network, and our experience with previous climate action programs, we urge the government of Canada to invest seriously in helping small businesses to reduce their emissions.

We hear time and again that many small businesses are concerned about climate change and want to do their fair share, but they need more direct support to overcome the barriers they face in doing so.

Small businesses need targeted financial [Technical difficulty—Editor] and deeper, direct support to help them make lasting changes to their operation that are good for the planet and good for their bottom line. This includes support for small businesses to set goals and develop concrete plans aligned with achieving Canada's 2030 and 2050 climate targets, the way that larger organizations are doing.

In closing, we applaud the federal government for its commitment to climate action and making significant investments that can drive a green recovery. However, to ensure that our economy thrives in the transition to a net-zero future, we cannot forget to invest in small businesses to do their part.

The support we provide to small businesses now will determine not just Canada's ability to meet our international commitment, but if we are successful in setting businesses on a path to a stronger and more resilient future.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Now we will turn it over to the Toronto Community Benefits Network.

Ms. Powell, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Rosemarie Powell, Executive Director, Toronto Community Benefits Network]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, honourable members of Parliament and members of the industry, science and technology standing committee.

My name is Rosemarie Powell, and I am joined by my colleague Kumsa Baker, representing the TCBN.

The Toronto Community Benefits Network is a 120-member, and growing, coalition of community organizations, grassroots groups and social enterprises, unions, construction trades' training centres and workforce development agencies. Our mandate as a non-profit organization is to partner with the government and with the construction industry to increase diversity, equity and inclusion in the economy and workforce of this industry that has historically excluded Black, indigenous and racialized Canadians.

We propose community benefits agreements as a proven and effective means to tackle this historic and systemic economic and employment equity issue, an issue that will only be further compounded as we seek a green recovery, if not addressed in an intentional way. When done right it creates a win-win solution for all, including for the industry as it struggles to find skilled workers to meet the growing demand and to deal with impending mass-scale retirements.

BuildForce Canada projects that the Canadian construction industry demands will intensify over the long-term, requiring more than 300,000 workers over a decade. In the middle of a pandemic, the best place to find skilled workers is in our local communities, from demographics that have low participation rates in the industry.

Over the next decade, government has allocated hundreds of billions of dollars to be spent on public infrastructure to build and maintain housing, roads, transit, water supply, electricity and telecommunications in urban and rural communities. It is imperative that government leaders ensure these large public infrastructure projects include CBAs that can ensure equitable workforce and business opportunities for Black, indigenous and racialized peoples, including women, persons with disabilities, veterans, vulnerable youth and newcomers. These approaches to infrastructure investment contribute to the federal government's environmental, economic and social policy objectives while delivering world-class infrastructure projects.

CBAs as part of large-scale public infrastructure projects is not new. Here in Toronto, the TCBN is currently implementing community benefits on five major infrastructure projects, including the Eglinton Crosstown LRT, the Finch West LRT, West Park Healthcare Centre and Casino Woodbine expansion projects.

Federally, community benefits have been included in projects like the Gordie Howe bridge in Windsor, which ensures economic, social and environmental benefits to support and strengthen the local economy.

Through the various community benefits programs and projects in Toronto, TCBN has worked with our network partners to support hundreds of people from under-represented groups into well-paying careers in the construction industry and on these projects, which include both skilled trades and professional administrative and technical positions. Now, although CBAs have been proven to help strengthen diversity in the industry, we remind you that it was just this past summer in Toronto that nooses were found on five separate construction sites with Black workers.

While we support policies like the federal community employment benefits program, which can be a valuable tool to create local workforce and business opportunities for under-represented groups, we need the government to ensure that these policies are adopted, implemented, tracked, monitored and publicly reported. We also need to ensure that all contractors have policies that ensure employment equity, and that their workforce is free from racism, discrimination, harassment and/or hate.

Last spring, at the height of the pandemic, we were extremely disappointed to see the dismissal by certain construction and engineering firms, like the Canadian Construction Association and Progressive Contractors Association, of community benefits agreements, and the livelihoods they support. This came at a time when participants of our Quick Start in Construction pre-apprenticeship training program were graduating and looking for entry into well-paying careers in the unionized construction industry.

In response, TCBN invited allies from our community labour and corporate partners to endorse a joint letter to the federal government, and it was extremely impactful. We got tons of support from across Canada. This is something that our communities want to see, and we implore the government to take leadership on this very important issue.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

With that, we will start our rounds of questions.

Our first six-minute round will go to MP Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to thank all the witnesses here today.

Your comments are very informative.

I just want to briefly describe my experience. I was once the mayor of La Pocatière, a town of 5,000 people, in the Bas-Saint-Laurent region of Quebec. When I was elected mayor 16 years ago, in 2005, the province of Quebec wanted to reduce putrescible waste. By 2020, 15 years later, the goal was for the entire province to have a brown bin program to collect putrescible waste. The objective was to improve our environment, given that Quebeckers' garbage bags are the heaviest in North America, if not the world. We may call ourselves environmentalists, but the fact remains that this policy still hasn't been fully implemented. Moreover, delays have occurred and continue to occur as we speak. This constitutes an example of a policy that was very forward-thinking at the time, but that unfortunately hasn't been implemented.

I'll turn to Mr. Breton.

Mr. Breton, you once worked for the Quebec government—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Sorry to interrupt you, Mr. Généreux.

The bells are ringing in the House.

I've stopped the clock. I need unanimous consent from the committee to continue. Maybe we can try to get in the first round before we have to suspend to vote.

Do I have the unanimous consent of the committee to continue?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Perfect. Thank you.

You have the floor, Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I'll continue.

Unfortunately, these policies couldn't be implemented as originally planned. We may have put in place different policies to improve our environment and save the planet. However, there's an issue, at least in Quebec. Unfortunately, these policies weren't implemented because of costs. Municipalities were reluctant to implement them because they were costly. In La Pocatière, we implemented them. Under my leadership, we were the first municipality to do so in the Bas-Saint-Laurent region.

Mr. Breton, I want to speak to you in particular. My example isn't related to transportation electrification. However, the fact remains that this Quebec policy hasn't been fully implemented.

Based on the figures that you provided, from 2005 to 2020, I gather that we reduced our greenhouse gas emissions, or GHG emissions, by only 1%. I believe that our goal was a 30% reduction by 2030. Gases from waste are also a major source of pollution, as is transportation. What do you think about the fact that we can't implement policies because of the costs involved?

[Daniel Breton]

Good question. You actually need to look at the short-term costs and how they're broken down over time. I'll give you a prime example.

Sometimes, municipalities can't afford to follow provincial or federal government policies. In the specific case of transportation electrification, everyone wins. In other words, the more electric vehicles come on the market, the more competitive they become. The total cost of electric vehicle ownership makes the vehicles competitive and turns them into an investment.

I wrote a book on this topic, which was published last week. In the book, I emphasize how this amounts to an investment for a person, for a municipality, and for a government as well.

I've spoken with officials in several municipalities, both large and small. They realize that the total cost of ownership is attractive because they're lowering their energy, health care and maintenance costs. The initial investment may be higher, but as electric vehicles go on the road, the vehicles are getting cheaper and cheaper. That's where the appeal lies, whether the vehicle is a light-duty vehicle, a bus or a heavy-duty vehicle. You must look at the matter from a total cost of ownership perspective.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

We'll be tabling a green economic recovery report, which includes a transportation electrification component. Suppose Canada's entire vehicle fleet were electrified tomorrow morning. My mother always said that nothing is lost, nothing is created, everything is transformed. I've never forgotten this motto. We all live on the same planet.

The Bloc Québécois members often say that they don't want to use western oil for whatever reason. We'll still need oil for many years to come, even if our oil consumption decreases, which could be a good thing.

However, electric vehicle manufacturing has an environmental cost. I'm thinking in particular of the rare earths needed to produce and recycle the batteries. Are these costs being assessed?

Of course, the goal is to create jobs in Canada. If the plan is to create these products in Canada, as Lion Electric is doing with buses and trucks, a battery factory will be needed. It takes raw materials to produce batteries, and this has an environmental cost. If, tomorrow morning, Canada's entire vehicle fleet were electrified, this would have an environmental cost. Has this cost been assessed yet?

[Daniel Breton]

Yes. The cost is often evaluated, and it's being done more and more now. Electric Mobility Canada is one of the ones working on the issue.

You are absolutely right that an electric car has an environmental cost. That said, the overall environmental cost of an electric car is much lower than that of a gas-powered vehicle. At worst, there is a 20% savings in greenhouse gas emissions. That would be the case of an electric vehicle in Alberta that is 92% powered by electricity derived from coal and natural gas. That will improve, however, with Alberta phasing out coal-fired power plants by 2023, replacing coal with natural gas, a renewable energy. At best, the environmental savings is 60%, 70% or even 80%.

You mentioned the use of rare earths to manufacture electric car batteries. That is a myth being perpetuated on social media. Electric vehicle batteries do not contain rare earths, but all anti-pollution systems in gas-powered vehicles do. In fact, that is the reason for the current rash of thefts of catalytic converters in Quebec and elsewhere.

Electric vehicles do have an environmental cost, but it is less than that of gas-powered vehicles. Electric vehicles are not the only way to reduce our environmental footprint; they are one of many ways.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you.

Our next round of questions will go to MP Erskine-Smith.

You have six minutes.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks very much, Chair.

I'm want to start with Mr. O'Callaghan.

With respect to the climate change debate in Canada, we often hear from the opposition that climate action is going to mean lost jobs. There's this idea of pitting the economy and environment get against each other. Some may well understand and appreciate that in the long term there may well be economic gains, but you've come before us and said that not only will we see strong long-term economic multipliers, but in fact even in the short term that green climate-focused spending will have stronger short-term economic multipliers.

Can you explain that to me in some greater detail?

[Brian O'Callaghan]

Absolutely. Thank you for the question. It's a great one.

I think the idea that oppressive environmental investment is bad for the economy is, honestly, at this point a misnomer. That was true 20 years ago when the cost of many of these interventions were prohibitive. Now, because of how much cheaper technologies have become, they make a lot more sense.

It's interesting that you bring up the short versus long-term debate here. In our modelling, the job impacts of many of these clean investments are really towards the short term. If you think about building a new renewable energy plant, the whole idea is not to have a significant employee base in the long term because the plants run themselves. However, there is significant employment in the short term and, according to the modelling that we've done with Vivid Economics, a consultancy based out of London, the job creation prospects of those clean investments in almost every case are higher than a dirty alternative. That's the job side.

You've also asked about the economic multiplier side. We've been modelling GVA, or gross value added. Again, in the short term the gross value added from a particular investment is equivalent to, and in many cases greater than, investments in dirty alternatives. The dirty alternative to clean energy is coal or gas; in sustainable transport it's just a new road, for example.

The long-term growth that we talk about is enabled by the short-term investments. Take clean energy, for example. The long-term growth there is a result of much cheaper, long-term access to electricity, which enables your electric vehicles and a transition to more efficient agriculture. All of those different things are enabled by that investment in the long term.

That's the short versus long-term dynamic we talk about.