Evidence of meeting #34 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was businesses.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
In your paper from May you delineated five types of policies: clean physical infrastructure, building efficiency, investments in education and training, national capital investment and clean R and D spending. In your opening remarks you said that you would be open to some questions related to worker training in particular.
When you look at those five categories and at global recovery packages and at the Canadian recovery package, what's missing?
Noon
Lead of the Economic Recovery Project, Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment, University of Oxford, As an Individual
I would state that the retraining piece is the biggest missing component in most developed economies. If any participant is interested in seeing the breakdown of current spending, you can either go to look at the Global Recovery Observatory or a paper titled “Are We Building Back Better", which I wrote with the United Nations Environment Programme.
In those you will note that in developed economies there's been spending on a wide range of green initiatives, but with this big hole in worker retraining. In the context of COVID, we've seen human capital being decreased at literally every turn. Whether you talk about school closures, talk about furlough programs, talk about unemployment, you will see that human capital has dropped significantly. Industries are in transition, and yet most governments aren't investing in some type of employee retraining or education initiatives to develop a workforce that is ready for those new jobs that you're pouring billions of dollars into otherwise.
That signal there in my remarks was specifically to the lack of investment in green retraining initiatives.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON
That's odd insofar as it goes to your comments on economic growth and job creation. It's also odd, I have to say, politically here in Canada. One of the biggest challenges we see with taking serious action on climate change is this really hyper-localized concern in particular regions of this country that if we transition away from certain sectors, we are going to lose jobs. The better political answer in some respects would be to invest massively in supporting workers, not particular kinds of work, but supporting that job retraining, supporting workers in particular geographies, not in particular sectors. It is a missing piece in a number of different respects.
I have a couple minutes left, maybe. Sherry, we'll see. Thirty seconds left.
In that case, could you highlight a couple of policies that we have here in Canada that maybe we shouldn't have as it relates to recovery? You mentioned dirty policies.
12:05 p.m.
Lead of the Economic Recovery Project, Smith School of Enterprise and the Environment, University of Oxford, As an Individual
Sure.
First, I would just go back to the retraining piece and say that it's not just green retraining that we've missed. It's retraining everywhere. It is a very difficult thing to do at scale, which is why I think many governments have stayed away from it.
One potentially useful example is from your neighbours down south, who I think are investing $100 billion, in theory, as part of their job plan that the administration has announced. That's something to stay aware of.
My apologies, Sherry.
12:05 p.m.
Liberal
12:05 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Thank you, Madam Chair.
My questions are for Mr. Breton.
First of all, thank you for accepting the committee's invitation. It's an honour to have you participate in the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology's study of a green recovery.
As you probably know, my car is fully electric. One of the reasons I decided to purchase it was to add to the fleet of vehicles. Along the lines of your recommendation, I wanted to encourage the expansion of charging infrastructure availability and the uptake of electric transportation programs. One statistic, in particular, I found quite compelling: electric vehicle owners trigger the environmental benefit once they have driven 80,000 kilometres.
What is the lifespan of an electric vehicle versus a gas-powered vehicle?
12:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electric Mobility Canada
You mentioned the distance that has to be driven in order to trigger the environmental benefits. That number is no longer 80,000 kilometres; it is now 20,000 or 30,000 kilometres thanks to improvements in the manufacturing of electric vehicles.
As for the lifespan of an electric vehicle versus a gas-powered vehicle, I would have to say it depends on the make. It's the same for gas-powered vehicles: some last longer than others. An electric vehicle can travel up to 250,000, 300,000 or 500,000 kilometres. Some gas-powered vehicles can last a long time as well.
12:05 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
Very well.
You were a bit rascally because you mentioned your seven recommendations to accelerate the green economic recovery through electric mobility, but you didn't go into detail. I'm rather fascinated.
Can you tell us more about them?
12:05 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electric Mobility Canada
Our first recommendation is that Canada develop a Canadian electric mobility strategy. I was the first elected official to be in charge of a government electric mobility strategy in Quebec.
Instead of taking a piecemeal approach to programs and initiatives, the government should, in our view, adopt a comprehensive vision of electric mobility, one that includes a zero-emission vehicle supply chain strategy. That would open the door to manufacturing as many electric vehicles and vehicle components in Canada as possible.
Our second recommendation involves regulations. It's fine to set targets, but regulations are necessary in order to meet them. In fact, in Canada's climate plan, the government proposes to align Canada's light-duty vehicle regulations with the most stringent performance standards in North America post-2025, whether at the United States federal or state level. That means Canada's regulations would have to align with those of California, which plans to ban the sale of diesel- and gas-powered vehicles starting in 2035.
Our third recommendation pertains to education, training and retraining. I completely agree with Mr. Erskine-Smith and Mr. O'Callaghan that we have huge gaps in that area. Some sectors will experience job losses, and others will face labour shortages. The electric mobility and renewable energy sectors are already in need of skilled workers.
I was pleasantly surprised last week to see that the budget included a significant investment in training and retraining. That has to be a priority, because it will help create jobs in British Columbia and the Maritime provinces.
Our fourth recommendation is to create a centralized resource and coordination hub to ensure everyone is talking to one another and working in a coordinated way to accelerate electrification.
Our fifth recommendation is to deploy zero-emission vehicle infrastructure, which will be needed all over the country. It is nevertheless important to keep in mind that the most important charging station is the one people have at home, since 70% to 90% of charging is done at home.
Our sixth recommendation is to create a zero-emission vehicle rebate. It would cover electric, plug-in hybrid and hydrogen-powered vehicles. Canada must continue to financially support the purchase of electric vehicles big and small until the price of electric vehicles is on a par with that of gas-powered vehicles. That would be in line with support the government has provided to other sectors, including oil and gas, and information technology.
Our seventh recommendation is that the government adopt green procurement practices to electrify Canadian government and Crown corporation fleets and infrastructure as much as possible.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
You mentioned hydrogen-powered vehicles.
As you know, some hydrogen is grey and other hydrogen is a lot better for the environment.
Manufacturing-wise, are the different types of hydrogen the same?
12:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electric Mobility Canada
Obviously not. Renewable resources are used to produce certain types of hydrogen, and natural gas or oil is used to produce other types. The environmental footprint is not at all the same.
That's why we think hydrogen-powered vehicles should be heavy-duty vehicles, in other words, boats and planes.
When it comes to medium- and light-duty vehicles, and even heavy-duty vehicles that travel shorter distances, battery-powered electric vehicles have a smaller environmental footprint.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC
As far as strategic metals are concerned, the electric mobility strategy should include a supply chain that fully supports the electrification of our industries.
Why is it so important to extract and process strategic metals in Quebec and Canada?
12:10 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Electric Mobility Canada
That's a very important question. Right now, 96% of electric vehicle batteries are manufactured in Asia, so China, Japan and Korea. That is hardly sustainable from an economic, environmental or even geopolitical standpoint.
We wouldn't want to end up in the same boat we were in because of our reliance on oil from the Middle East. We were mixed up in conflicts we wanted nothing to do with, all because we were heavily dependent on a single region for our oil.
In order for Canada, Quebec and the United States to derive the greatest environmental and economic benefit, we need an agreement to build an electric vehicle supply chain based in Canada and the United States. In fact, Mr. Biden and Mr. Trudeau agreed to do just that.
12:10 p.m.
Bloc
12:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you.
Our next round of questions goes to MP Masse.
You have six minutes.
12:10 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Thank you to our guests for being here.
My first questions will be for the Toronto Community Benefits Network.
With regard to the federal budget that was just announced and is going through the House of Commons right now, can you highlight a couple of opportunities there? We can do a lot of symbolic gestures about equality, but they're really meaningless if we don't actually get the programs out there, have the results and measure the results by dealing with the inequities. Your work is crucial in getting some of those real jobs created.
For my project, the Gordie Howe International Bridge, we got some basic community benefits—a pittance in the overall project—but it was a first big step forward. It is a recognition that a federal project can actually have community benefits. Can you maybe highlight a couple of opportunities in the federal budget that might be advantageous to move this along?
12:10 p.m.
Executive Director, Toronto Community Benefits Network
I'll allow my colleague, Kumsa Baker, to speak, but in general, absolutely, regarding the federal budget, we received it very well because of the investment that government planned to make. There was a lot of focus on Black and racialized communities for support and financial investment and for community organizations that serve the Black community, which was great.
When it came to infrastructure, it was very silent on the supports specifically for Black and indigenous peoples [Technical difficulty--Editor] is that when the focus is not there, the organizations that are applying for funding will not specifically identify this demographic as a community that ought to be served, so it will be really important in your community employment benefits that the terminology around Black, indigenous and racialized people be specifically addressed there.
There are also provisions for social procurement that we need to consider to ensure that, when the funds are distributed to the provinces and then from the provinces to the municipal governments, we have a community benefits framework in place that will ensure employment equity provisions in it.
Go ahead, Kumsa.
12:15 p.m.
Kumsa Baker Campaigns Director, Toronto Community Benefits Network
I would just add that another additional opportunity we see is federal lands. One of the things that we've been working on closely here in Toronto is Downsview Park, which is currently undergoing large master planning for redevelopment once Bombardier leaves in 2023. That's a federally regulated project where we see an opportunity for a mix of communities to be developed in a way that's equitable. We want to see community benefit agreements applied similarly to projects where there might be federal scope related to land development.
Similarly, we're supporting a group in Ottawa as part of LeBreton Flats, which is also another large-scale project under the National Capital Commission. There are going to be lots of investments in that project, and we need to make sure we build back better that we have strong commitments and targets for community benefit agreements and that those communities, especially those under-represented groups who have been negatively impacted by the pandemic, whether it's health-wise or economically, are getting prioritized in those new training opportunities, those investments that are going into supporting skills development. We're really looking forward to that sort of commitment to make sure that, when we reflect back on all of this recovery work, we see strong commitments and outcomes for equity.
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
Tying them into the project, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention one of my closest friends and a mentor who recently passed away, Shelley Harding-Smith. She was a role model to many women, being a Black master electrician in Canada working for Ford. She was a fixture in Sandwich town, where everybody knew her in the small area, so you get individuals who have a profound echo effect even after they move on.
Do we want to make sure that those things are guaranteed as part of the contract so that we can get those measurable results later on?
12:15 p.m.
Executive Director, Toronto Community Benefits Network
Absolutely, that is the idea, to ensure that, in the procurement itself, when the government sends out the requests for proposal, there is specific language that the industry understands, a blueprint of sorts, that lets them know that this is a requirement when they're submitting their proposals and that they must include provisions that will ensure employment equity. We want to see this also included in the collective agreements between the unions and the general contractors.
Another thing that needs to happen is to also look at the subcontractor community. Yes, there are the large billion-dollar projects, but these billion-dollar projects get broken down through layers of subcontracting. How do we ensure that the supply chain and the subcontractors who are delivering on behalf of these general contractors also have those same requirements and have that same language inside of their contracts?
12:15 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
That's excellent.
I'm going to move on to Mr. Breton for a couple of quick questions.
12:15 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
That is the end of the first round, and with less than five minutes remaining before the question is put in the House, what I will do is suspend to allow members to be able to hear the question to vote.
Because members have 10 minutes to vote and technically could change their vote during those 10 minutes, I don't want to take away that option for MPs. Once you've voted, if you want to come back to the meeting, I won't start the meeting until MPs have been able to vote and to make sure that their vote is counted.
I will suspend for now. We will go to the vote and I will call the meeting back to order once everyone has had the chance to vote.
Thank you.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
I now call the meeting back to order.
Thank you again for your patience.
We will now start round two. We will turn to MP Barlow.
Welcome to INDU. You have the floor for five minutes.