Industry Committee on April 27th, 2021

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Lloyd, you spoke about the barriers that small businesses face when trying to reach that zero-emission target as well. There's a company in my riding called ERA, which works with companies to help them reach these targets and become more environmentally friendly. This obviously helps businesses, because like you said, they may not necessarily know on their own how to go greener. When an outside company comes in and does their assessment and makes sure...that's one way, I think, that people and companies can benefit and go forward by hiring an outside expert. Obviously, if they had money from the government to pay for these types of assessments, that would be beneficial. I know you already covered this, but perhaps you can go over some of the obstacles that small businesses face and why they're not necessarily jumping onboard, even though it's the popular thing to do and the right thing to do.

[Priyanka Lloyd]

Yes, for sure.

To that point about existing support, I think one of the barriers businesses face in accesing that and which I didn't share is that right now they're not being well-served by the private sector. Consultants are often very expensive for small businesses to afford, and they're great to go deep on a particular area, but there isn't much of that broad-ranging support available.

As for why they're not making more progress, there are a couple of different factors. One is the external incentives and consumers' willingness to pay for products that are greener, or for raw material inputs that cost more to manufacture, for example. The playing field hasn't yet been there. I think anything the government can do to align those market incentives so that organizations that are doing things the right way can be rewarded in the marketplace would be a good thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire, it is your turn. You have two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

My question is for Mr. Breton, from Electric Mobility Canada.

You talked about the importance of developing an electric mobility strategy, one that includes the deployment of charging stations for zero-emission vehicles. You are pushing for government institutions and Crown corporations to significantly electrify their fleets.

Can you tell us more about that?

[Daniel Breton]

A lot of people think that electric vehicles are only for city use, that they aren't made for life in the suburbs, on the outskirts or in remote areas.

The biggest challenge is not so much regional use, because most charging happens at home. I live a good ways from the city, but usually, it's no trouble for people like me to have a charging station installed out front or in the garage. The real challenge is downtowns, be it in Quebec City, Montreal, Toronto or Calgary. Will people who work in office towers or who live on the eighth, 10th or 12th floor of an apartment building have access to charging stations? Those types of situations are more challenging, so that's why we need a plan to deploy charging stations in downtowns. That remains a tremendous challenge.

A few cornerstones of electric mobility can go a long way towards expediting the electrification of transportation. More charging infrastructure is needed, and so is more education and training, for both consumers and workers. Falsehoods are rife when it comes to electrification, transportation and electric vehicles overall.

In addition, until price parity is achieved, more rebates are obviously needed to make electric vehicles more affordable, and I don't mean just cars. Most of the electric pickup trucks and SUVs coming onto the market probably won't qualify for federal rebates. To me, that's unfair, from a regional standpoint and a use standpoint. Why shouldn't someone who needs a pickup truck for work not be eligible for a rebate?

As far as we are concerned, a federal zero-emission law applicable to light-duty and heavy-duty vehicles is a must, all the more so if Canada wants to achieve its greenhouse gas emission reduction targets and adopt an electric vehicle policy modelled on California's. Last week, in fact, the governors of 12 states in the U.S. called on President Joe Biden to introduce federal zero-emission legislation.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Should the federal government lead by example and electrify its own fleet?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

You're out of time, Mr. Lemire.

Our last round will go to MP Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Ms. Lloyd, do we almost need an ISO standard for small and medium-sized businesses and supports for them? I get your point that many of them don't have in-house human resources, such as in-house accountants or lawyers. Trying to take advantage of some of the government programs is very difficult. Would it make sense to do some type of standardization and then incentivize that standardization to make it available to the different SMEs?

[Priyanka Lloyd]

Is that standardization in terms of supports or just in terms of what is required for businesses to green their operations?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

It's both, actually. One doesn't work without the other. It just spins out of control.

[Priyanka Lloyd]

There was an article published in the Globe and Mail recently about the need to have more consistency in how businesses in general, whether they're small businesses or not, are defining what getting to net zero means. Right now there's not even consistency there in terms of how organizations are using offsets, for example, versus true reductions, and whether they're just focusing directly on their own operations or they're also targeting emissions from their value chain.

I think in general, as part of Canada's transition strategy to get to net zero, there does need to be more consistency and definition of what we mean by that. The pathways will look different for different industries. The pathways will also look different for different sizes of business. I think anything that on the whole would allow us to have a discussion where we're all talking about the same thing, and anything that provides more focus on the needs of small business, and especially what they need, which has been lacking, will be helpful as we think about this transition. Especially given that small and medium-sized businesses make up 99% of our economy, and we know that having a strong economy will be really important, we need to figure out how to transition the bulk of the economy together.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thanks.

To the Toronto Community Benefits Network, just quickly, the United States actually has guaranteed percentages for federal contracts and regional expectations and actually does follow-up. Is that similar to what you're requesting? Is it a model maybe not exactly like that but one with accountability drawn into the contracts, which can be measured later on and have specific regional and localized results that can measure the results of the minority groups that are identified in terms of being deficient in the economy, and then getting support later on and getting real results from that activity of the federal money?

[Rosemarie Powell]

You are absolutely correct. That's exactly what we're looking for. For Community Benefits we must have targets and a baseline understanding of where we're at, a target for where we want to go, and a continuous intention process to actually get there. This needs to be in the contract with the contractors.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you for that.

I wish we had more time for Mr. Breton.

A bunch of incentive programs have been out there. The ecoAUTO rebate was put in place, and the Pacific incentive has been provided as well.

Thanks, Madam Chair.

There's lots of good stuff.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

That is our time for today.

I want to thank the witnesses for their excellent testimony and their patience with us today. If there's anything you did not get to share with the committee today that you think would be important, you can submit a brief to the clerk. Feel free to send it directly to the clerk and he'll make sure that it's translated in both official languages and circulated to the committee. I say this because you may not have had a chance to get all of what you wanted on the record.

With that, I'd like to thank MPs again for your patience. Also, thanks to the folks in the room who make everything that we do possible.

My sincere thanks to the IT team, the interpreters and the staff in the room. Your hard work is greatly appreciated.

With that, we will call the meeting adjourned.