Industry Committee on May 6th, 2021

[Dan McTeague]

Yes, they are.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Would you also agree that there is an international consensus about climate change, yes or no?

[Dan McTeague]

No.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

There's no consensus. Okay. Perhaps that explains what you said earlier. You said during your testimony today that our country is attempting to “convert the rest of the world”.

What did you mean by that?

[Dan McTeague]

Mr. Ehsassi, I'm sorry, what section were you referring to, my questions before with other members or the initial commentary?

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I think there is an international consensus about climate change—

[Dan McTeague]

No, I'm sorry. With all due respect, I think you asked me a question, not about the question I've just answered but in fact this one here.

You said I've said something in testimony. Can you raise where that was or can you have Liberal research change that for you?

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I can repeat it if you like. You say the government is attempting to “convert the rest of the world”.

Is that really what you see our government's mission being, given that every other country seems just as concerned about climate changes as Canada is?

[Dan McTeague]

Mr. Ehsassi, I'm not sure where you're reaching for that. If you think I said that, that's fine. I'll leave that with you. I don't believe I said that.

What I said was that I think Canada has to be careful of the role and the emphasis it places on changes that are going to have a dramatic impact on the bottom lines of Canadians.

I think constituents of Willowdale are just as important as people around the world who understand this issue, but all understand that you can't achieve these things by losing people along the way and destroying your ability to make ends meet.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I appreciate the importance of Canadians and the views that they hold. Despite everything that we hear about Canadians, they are very much concerned about climate change. That's precisely why I don't quite understand why you would call Canadians engaging in “faddish hysteria” over climate change.

[Dan McTeague]

Mr. Ehsassi, I think it's fairly clear that when you have a government saying that they can change, and they grandstand on targets and say that we can achieve 30% below 2005 levels, without taking into consideration what we've done already prior to 2005, and shutting down coal plants is an example.... We have a government that says we'll change that; we'll make it 45% below 2005 levels.

It is faddish and it is cliquish. The problem you're seeing, Mr. Ehsassi, is that increasingly.... I disagree with your point. I think only 24% of Canadians think climate is an important issue and the other 75% are interested in jobs and health care. They're interested in making sure that Canada does a good job at getting back on its economic feet after this pandemic is over. I think that's something that would be far more advisable, from my years of experience, Mr. Ehsassi, and my six terms as a Liberal member of Parliament and lead on consumer issues for our party at a time when it used to care about consumers.

[Ali Ehsassi, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

We will now go to Monsieur Lemire.

Mr. Lemire, you have two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Allan, AddÉnergie produces smart charging stations that can be deployed on a network. Can you tell us about the technology behind this product, which is in high demand in the United States?

How can your technology help level out the peaks in energy consumption?

[Travis Allan]

The technology that we developed in Quebec helps us do a couple of different things.

When you think about a traditional fuelling structure like a gas tank, you think it's really about taking fuel safely from a big tank and putting it in your vehicle. But when you're using IoT, Internet of things, connected—things like charging stations that are networked—what you're actually doing is enabling a whole range of data reporting and analysis that helps our utility partners to understand the impacts on their grid. It also eventually will allow Canadians to make really smart choices about when they consume energy and how.

That will allow for cost savings, which as many witnesses here have mentioned, is really important, because there are different times of day, especially when we use solar or wind, where there's more power or less. It allows utilities to incentivize the best types of consumption.

On the flip side, if you're looking at a commercial landlord that's deploying a bunch of charging stations, such as many of our large clients who have started electrifying their parking lots, you'll see that it allows them to make really smart decisions about where they position charging stations, how much they charge for them. Really, it's about managing energy, which can be the biggest single cost in deploying those charging stations. Basically, it's opening up a whole new world of analytics and also smart energy management.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You recommend that 75% of purchases of new light-duty unmodified vehicles be zero-emission vehicles. You also recommend that the government set a goal of making charging stations available in 30% of parking spaces by 2030, at a rate of 5% per year.

What measures could the federal government take to stimulate the green economy and create green jobs, such as providing financial assistance for the installation of home charging stations?

[Travis Allan]

That's correct.

We have made recommendations to the government to expand its purchase of both electric vehicles and charging stations primarily to line up with the Canadian government's own objectives with respect to electrifying transportation and also to support their greening government techniques.

I think that's an opportunity for direct investment by the government. There's also a huge opportunity to help electrify people's homes as well.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much.

Our next round of questions will go to MP Masse.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all our witnesses.

I have limited time so I'm going to go to the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, and thank the other members who may not get a chance to answer. I'd like them to be able to have a full, robust answer and not interrupt them, as they're guests here.

My experience with the Canada postal assets has been that we're underutilizing some of the potential that we have. I've noticed your campaign of affordability also includes everything from manufacturing to using our assets and then paying a dividend back to taxpayers, which Canada Post has a very long history of doing.

Can you expand on how we can connect a bit of the manufacturing as well towards it? For example, vehicles that we've purchased most recently came from Turkey. They could actually be made here in Canada. Would you please elaborate on what you're proposing?

[Jean-Philippe Grenier]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Masse.

The vehicles we currently use at Canada Post are hybrid vehicles manufactured in Turkey. There are no buy Canadian guidelines, but we've seen recently that the big three automakers in southern Ontario have signed agreements with Unifor, another union, for labour and that GM is reopening its vehicle production plant in Oshawa.

Right now there are great opportunities for Canada if it moves toward electrification of transportation. We saw that the Ford plant in Oakville announced that it would be producing seven types of electric vehicles. What needs to be emphasized here is that we need delivery fleets that are adapted to Canadian weather conditions and designed for use in our territories.

In Germany, Mercedes has built a fully electric vehicle with a range of 200 kilometres and tested it in Russia in very cold winter conditions, such as those found in Canadian winters. I believe that such expertise could be developed in Canada to allow for the purchase of 100% Canadian-made vehicles. This would help boost the economy and create green jobs in Canada, and it would allow Crown corporations to use Canadian-made vehicles.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

We'll now go to MP Baldinelli.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here this morning.

I'd like to go to Mr. McTeague and follow up on some of his earlier comments.

In response to a line of questioning, you mentioned that if we're not careful in the approach we take, it will have an economic impact on the type of recovery, probably, that we're going to experience in the years ahead.

Following up on a line of questioning from one of my colleagues, we did talk about the Green Energy Act.

I come from the community of Niagara Falls, and you talked about being from Pickering. I have those Sir Adam Beck plants that you talked about, 2,200 megawatts of power.

Concerning the impact and the debt levels that were brought about by the Green Energy Act, the individuals who were involved in developing those policies are the same cast of characters who are involved in developing these policies that this federal government is now advocating and putting forward. That concerns me for my constituents.

Does it concern you? What impact will that have on our country?

[Dan McTeague]

Mr. Baldinelli, thank you, and it's a great pleasure.

I'm not very far from you here in Oakville. I can tell you that, from my home right now, you see the electricity that comes from the Adam Beck, one of the few lines left over from 1911.

Of course it does concern all of us, Mr. Baldinelli, when you have the desire by constituents to understand where the economy is going, whether or not the current economic bubble we find ourselves in, not just in terms of housing but lumber prices.... We're now seeing inflation creeping back in.

I think the last thing we need to be visited with is untested, untried technologies that go way ahead of, not just the laws of physics, but what we can see as achievable here in Canada for the time being.

In Oakville, and I'm sure you've driven by them, you see the over 12,000 cars that are sitting there because we don't have microchips. Each of those vehicles is missing 17.

We need to understand that, as we make this transition to the new green or new economy, we can't forget that it can't be done without fossil fuels and without hydrocarbons. I don't think there are many in your constituency or in my former constituency who would disagree with that.

It's an excellent question, but I sense that we have an opportunity in this country to rejoice and celebrate. I am extremely concerned about the fact that, without oil and gas being successful, and manufacturing and now our agricultural sector being adversely affected by carbon taxes, we may find ourselves in a situation where we can't pay off massive debts that we've incurred. I think that's something that's a generational issue.

I was there from 1993 to 1998 when our government had to make some very unpopular choices to cut back on programs: social programs for teachers, for housing, for pensions and for our hospitals. I don't think we want to go down that road. I think we have to be very careful and look before we leap.

[Tony Baldinelli, Conservative, Niagara Falls, ON]

Thank you.

Just following up on that and the approach that we talk about, you recently posted on your website about the reductions and emission targets. You mentioned greenhouse gas emissions in Canada that are listed, and our 2019 emissions level increased by 1% over 2018.

When you compared for the Paris target accords—we're going to 2005 as a baseline year—you're saying that, over those 14 years, emissions have only gone down by 1%. You're then postulating with the government's new commitments that they're going to have to reduce emissions by 29% over 11 years. How does one do that without having a negative impact on the Canadian economy, and how can they do that?

[Dan McTeague]

That's a really good question, Mr. Baldinelli. I don't know how they're going to do it. I've strained to try to find out how you're going to achieve....

Assuming the Paris target of 30% under 2005 by 2030, you're now increasing that to 40% or 45%—