Industry Committee on May 6th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 37 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

So that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee.

To ensure an orderly meeting, I will outline a few rules to follow. Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of “floor”, “English” or “French”. Please select your preference now.

As a reminder, all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. When you are not speaking, please make sure that your microphone is on mute.

As is my normal practice, I will hold up a yellow card when you have 30 seconds left in your intervention and I will hold up a red card when your time for questions has expired. Please keep your screen in gallery view so that you see the cards when I hold them up.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on November 5, 2020, the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology is meeting today to continue its study on the economic recovery from COVID-19.

I'll now welcome our witnesses.

From AddÉnergie Technologies Inc., we have Mr. Travis Allan, vice-president of public affairs and general counsel. From Advanced Building Innovation Company, we have Mr. Frank Cairo, who is the chief executive officer and co-founder. From Canadians for Affordable Energy, we have the Honourable Dan McTeague, president.

From the Canadian Union of Postal Workers, we welcome Jean-Philippe Grenier, 3rd National Vice-President, and Hugo Charette, Campaign Coordinator, Metropolitan Montreal Region.

From the Climate Action Network Canada, we welcome Lauren Latour, Coordinator, Climate Ambition, and Caroline Brouillette, Policy Analyst.

Finally, from Keurig Dr Pepper Canada, we have with us Marie-Anne Champoux-Guimond, Manager, Sustainability, and Cynthia Shanks, Director, Sustainability and Communications.

Each witness will present for up to five minutes, followed by rounds of questions.

With that, we will begin with Mr. Frank Cairo.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Frank Cairo, Chief Executive Officer and Co-Founder, Advanced Building Innovation Company]

Members of committee and Madam Chair, I thank everyone for having me here today and obviously for the attention being paid to such an important issue.

I sent a presentation. If it could be presented on the screen, I'll speak to the slides.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Unfortunately, Mr. Cairo, we cannot present it on the screen, but once we have an opportunity to have the slides in both official languages, they'll be circulated to the committee.

[Frank Cairo]

That's fair enough.

The Advanced Building Innovation Company, which I co-founded with my business partner Troy van Haastrecht, is a venture that has set out with nothing less than the mission and the vision of a full reform of the homebuilding sector. We are a land development company and a homebuilding company. We founded the Advanced Building Innovation Company to make some changes to the way new homes are built and land is developed.

Our main focus relates to the implementation of a home system and component manufacturing, robotics and automation, including integration of data, data science, machine intelligence—I'll use the coined words—artificial intelligence and machine learning.

We have a software division that's focused on the proliferation and innovation of generative design technologies, optimization and combinatorics. For anyone who is interested in those sectors, we can talk further. I would say that's a big part of our business, as well as research and development related to the homebuilding space.

In particular, today I'll talk about two main things. The first is that we are building one of the largest home and advanced manufacturing centres in Canada here in Ottawa. It's actually at the periphery of the honourable Pierre Poilievre's riding. In particular, the centre is going to showcase the latest in advanced robotics and software innovation to dramatically improve not only the energy performance, but also the quality, affordability and construction timelines for new home product in this region and also outside of this region.

We see our facility as really, at the end of the day, the genesis of a reform to our industry from fairly rudimentary practices, historically, to really embracing the latest of full ship-to-shore, cyber-physical manufacturing systems. We are not only researching and developing our own robotic technologies, but we're also looking at innovative ways on site to assemble these manufactured home products using robotics, machine learning and artificial intelligence to simplify the logistics around supply chains, the materials and the material waste that comes from new home construction. In particular, we're using software innovation to dramatically change the way homes are being designed.

What's possible now, using some of the software innovations we've been working on, dramatically changes the extent of the materials that are required for a new home and how that new home performs for the end consumer. Most importantly, it also addresses aspects of affordability.

These are all big bucket topics that I can focus on in more detail if anyone is interested. The presentation's slide deck shows images of some things that we're doing and some of the areas that we hope to address in our sector.

In our software development group, we're also innovating in other sectors. Some of our optimization and mathematical approaches to optimization are now being embraced by other sectors, which we can talk about, to minimize waste, improve efficiency and to make use of the valuable resources that go into product delivery across several sectors.

We see not only this region here in Ottawa as an important economic hub for this future sector, but we also see Ontario and Canada being well positioned as a leader in this space. We hope that export potential into the United States, for example, is something that we can take advantage of.

The big ticket issue and the big elephant in the room today obviously is commodity pricing—the cost of lumber and wood products. Housing affordability is influenced by many factors, the cost of land, the limited land supply, inflationary pressures with monetary policy, but also the dramatic change and inflation we're seeing around the goods and commodities that go into new homes. I would strongly urge anyone who's listening and would like to make a difference to think about lumber as we would any other product, like petroleum and others. It's an essential part of our economy and needs to be carefully considered.

That being said, we are not a supporter of broad government support for business. We feel business needs to stand on its own two feet. We do, though, believe that....

My time's up. I apologize for that.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Mr. Cairo. I'll let you know that your presentation was circulated to the members this morning.

Thank you.

We will now go to Mr. McTeague.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Dan McTeague, President, Canadians for Affordable Energy]

Thank you, Ms. Romanado.

What a pleasure it is to be back after 10 years. I wonder if you all missed me.

To all of my colleagues and guests who are here today as witnesses, thank you for presenting. I look forward to the questions that you may have. We may differ on some ideas, but it's really good to be back. Thanks for inviting me.

First, let me thank you for the opportunity to speak to this committee today.

I am here in my capacity as President of Canadians for Affordable Energy. We are a not for profit organization, with almost 200,000 supporters following us on a variety of social media channels and email. That following is growing by the day, as more and more Canadians become alarmed at what is happening on energy prices.

I will try to go back and forth in French and English, so I hope I don't lose the interpreters in the process. I know sometimes it can be a bit of a challenge technologically.

Our focus is simple. Affordable energy has to be and needs to remain our foundational effect on the well-being of Canadians. Keeping energy affordable requires constant attention, as there needs to be a steady push back against policy pitfalls that appear to threaten it.

COVID-19 and the lockdowns imposed because of it have had a huge—I can't underestimate and underemphasize that—economic impact on Canadians. Massive amounts of public dollars are being spent to soften the pain of that impact. Governments are using, unfortunately, the excuse of COVID-19 to spend even more, causing massive debt in our country. Our children and our grandchildren will have to pay for that, and this, of course, accumulates at an unprecedented degree.

An economic hit from an epidemic, of course, is to be expected. What is not expected is the piling on of more debt and wasteful spending under the guise of a response when, in fact, it's spending aimed at redesigning the economy in the image of the government's ideological bias.

The build back campaign of this Liberal government—and I say this as a former MP of more than 17 years standing in the Liberal Party—is all about that ideological bias. It is a radical green agenda that is trying to deconstruct the fundamental elements of our extraordinary country.

The people who will be hurt are ordinary Canadians in the millions. How? First will be through a carbon tax that is now set to go to $170 a tonne within a decade, adding thousands to every family's annual costs, of which only a portion will flow back to those in terms of rebates.

Second, it will be through the clean fuel standard that, despite claims of this government, amounts to a second carbon tax for the consumer, as it will drive the price of energy up. Third will be—I don't want to take away from Mr. Cairo—through building code changes that will make expensive housing even more unaffordable.

The question is: What if you can't have an affordable furnace in your home? What if you're required to meet a new building standard that dramatically raises the cost of basic energy services? This, in fact, is what is coming to us. It is obviously a building code campaign that I refer to as a third carbon tax.

Fourth, through huge outlays of taxpayers' hard-earned dollars on a variety of government programs that amount to picking favourites in fuels and technology, there are programs like electric bus subsidies and biofuel subsidies. These and other government actions are massive expenditures that will not expedite recovery. Some government spending will provide a temporary boost, but that will have the net effect of enriching a handful of those who have placed themselves strategically close to the government and, of course, decision-makers.

Think of renewable companies pushing how green and economic they are when you know full well that they can't survive without public dollars. Think of countless other companies that will pile on trying to find some way to access public subsidies to get their piece of the largesse. Think of hedge funds. Think of banks and lending institutions. Think here of the financial industry investors who are riding the green wave to create investment opportunities while virtue signalling with their rhetoric about how we need to act.

Our energy system is one of the most robust in the world. I think there is no debate on that. We are blessed with extraordinary fuels, technologies and human know-how, but we are now under the spell of those who say, “It needs to change, and we definitely know what's best.”

I see my time is up, but I want to point out that it's time to stop interfering with the economy. It's time to look at technology, not taxes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to the next witness.

—the Canadian Union of Postal Worker. Gentlemen, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Jean-Philippe Grenier, 3rd National Vice-President, Canadian Union of Postal Workers]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would first like to thank the members of the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology for inviting us to be part of your work on the green economic recovery following COVID-19.

My name is Jean-Philippe Grenier and I am the 3rd National Vice-President of the Canadian Union of Postal Workers. I am accompanied by my colleague Hugo Charette, who is the Campaign Coordinator, Metropolitan Montreal Region.

We are here today to talk to you about our campaign called Delivering Community Power, which the union has been conducting since 2016. This is the postal workers' plan both to fight climate change and to provide new services at post offices. Using recovery principles, we have blended the environmental concerns with the new services that we could provide at post offices all over the country.

For your work, we want to talk to you about two aspects of the project of which we are particularly fond: the electrification of Canada Post's fleet of vehicles and the establishment of a network of public charging stations at Canada Post facilities. I want to focus on these two aspects. I also invite you to seek information on our overall campaign, because it contains a multitude of other components.

Like many others in the transportation and logistics industry, Canada Post is a major emitter of greenhouse gases. Canada Post makes deliveries to many diverse locations, but even more significant is the fact that it has the largest fleet of vehicles in Canada. We have 20,000 vehicles in total, about 13,000 of which belong directly to the Crown corporation. The remaining 7,000 are used by Canada Post employees in rural areas. The latter are, in effect, using their own vehicles to deliver parcels and mail.

For years, we have been urging the employer to electrify its transportation. Its response is that it is currently transforming the fleet of vehicles by replacing, with hybrid and electric models, the traditional delivery vehicles that are at the end of their useful life. The costs of doing so are not really any higher.

That is the employer's position, but, actually, despite the current consensus on electrifying transportation, Canada Post is still opting for hybrid technology. I often entertain myself by saying that, as a Crown corporation, we prefer to stick with an old technology, hybrid technology, while the need is to start adopting new ones. Some hybrid vehicles we have on the roads are not rechargeable. So no energy is recovered. Other hybrid vehicles are rechargeable, but there are no electric vehicle charging stations at Canada Post facilities.

Our plan is to install electric vehicle charging stations across the entire country. Canada has about 6,100 post offices. The recharging stations could be a win-win situation, both for Canada Post customers who could use them when they go to the post office, and for corporation employees, given that the fleet of electric vehicles could be recharged at night.

Quite recently—in 2018, if I am not mistaken—we asked Queen's University to conduct a study in the Maritime provinces: New Brunswick, Nova Scotia and Prince Edward Island. The study was about implementing a secondary network using existing infrastructures. I invite you to take a look at it. My colleague Mr. Charette will distribute it to the committee members. The study established that electric vehicle charging stations are generally deployed in a primary network that follows major arteries. But in rural areas, gaps exist. Post offices could play a very important role.

Currently, Canada Post has a plan to install nine electric vehicle charging stations in the whole country, whereas 6,100 locations are possible. We regret the fact that Canada Post went to an American company for the charging stations, when we have companies such as AddÉnerie.

I will now give the floor to my colleague, Mr. Charette.

[Hugo Charette, Campaign Coordinator, Metropolitan Montreal Region, Canadian Union of Postal Workers]

In terms of societal change, 2030 and 2050 are like tomorrow morning. The government has the opportunity to show its leadership by strongly pointing out the right direction. The union of postal workers, with our 55,000 members, is here to be part of that initiative. We want to be part of the solution and we support a green economic recovery, a just recovery.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Réseau action climat Canada.

Ms. Brouillette and Ms. Latour, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Caroline Brouillette, Policy Analyst, Climate Action Network Canada]

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

We thank you for having us appear before the committee. I join you this morning from unceded Kanien’kehá:ka lands, better known as Montreal. I will be sharing my time with my colleague Lauren Latour, the climate ambition coordinator for the network.

Climate Action Network Canada is the only network in the country that brings more than 130 labour, faith-based, indigenous and development groups together with Canada's leading environmental organizations, all of whom are working together on climate change.

The past year has taught us a lot about the vulnerability of the Canadian economy. The global health crisis and its devastating consequences place us at an historic crossroads. Will we seize this moment to build back better, through a just and green recovery that will make us more resilient to future crises, including climate, economic inequality and racism? Or will we redouble our efforts to promote the status quo?

The challenge and urgency you and your colleagues must face as lawmakers require government to take action on the economy in ambitious ways that are different from what we are all accustomed to.

Canada is the only G7 country whose emissions have increased since 1990. To contribute to the global effort to contain the temperature increase to 1.5 degrees Celsius, Canada must become massively involved in the economy. This will require more than simple incentives and voluntary programs for consumers and businesses. The magnitude of the challenge requires us to take a revolutionary, moonshot approach, much like the transformation of the Canadian economy during the Second World War, the space race, or, more recently and fresh in our memories, the global effort to rapidly develop and distribute COVID-19 vaccines.

As a first step, this will therefore require that the government adopt a regulatory approach with clear timelines, particularly in the only two Canadian sectors where greenhouse gas emissions are still on the rise: the oil and gas sector and transportation. This was pointed out by previous witnesses. For example, in the transportation sector, we have important work to do in land use planning and public transit. However, we also need to go beyond incentives for the purchase of zero-emissions vehicles and implement a national mandate that will require auto retailers to gradually increase the sales of electric vehicles to 100% of new vehicles by 2035. Quebec is doing it. It will ensure that we have assembly lines and supply chains in this crucial sector of the automotive industry in Canada.

As a second step, we must scale up climate investments. Many experts estimate that we should spend 1% to 2% of GDP per year, the equivalent of $20 billion to $40 billion, to decarbonize the economy. By way of comparison, the Canadian Centre for Policy Alternatives estimates that the amount committed to climate spending in April's budget is more like 0.25% of Canada's GDP. Yet that budget featured historic and unprecedented investments in climate.

My colleague Lauren Latour will now speak to you about the scope of these investments.

[Lauren Latour, Coordinator, Climate Ambition, Climate Action Network Canada]

Good morning to all. To begin, I'll echo my colleague Ms. Brouillette's thanks for the opportunity to address the committee.

We in Canada have a highly knowledgeable, well-skilled workforce capable of building the technologies that will usher us into carbon neutrality. To do this, we need to channel public investment towards real solutions and support workers in communities in order to make these technological shifts at the scale required.

This means, first, that green strings should be attached to all public investments. Financial support to industry must be predicated on conditions that result in a transition to zero emissions, and condition support to emissions intensive sectors on either actions being taken to significantly reduce emissions, or acceptance of regulatory changes that will drive such a reduction.

Second, we are in the midst of an intimidating global economic shift, driven not only by COVID-19 but also automation and competition, and exacerbated by the climate crisis.

A just transition requires decision-makers like yourselves to ensure that when industries and jobs are phased out in the coming years, the burdens of adjusting to these societal changes are not shouldered unfairly by affected workers and communities.

The federal government has recently reaffirmed its commitment to the implementation of a just transition act, legislation essential to the sweeping intervention in the Canadian economy described by my colleague.

Many jurisdictions have adopted policies supporting a managed decline of the fossil fuel industry. Denmark, for instance, will stop issuing new licences for oil and gas exploration, phasing out fossil fuels by 2050. California Governor Gavin Newsom has announced taking action to phase out fossil fuel extraction.

Just transition is a foundational principle, recognized by the International Labour Organization and embedded in the Paris Agreement. I'll take a moment to highlight one of Climate Action Network Canada member organization Unifor's seven asks of government related to the formation of a just transition act for Canada, which advocates for the promotion—

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Madam Latour, my apologies, but you're over time. If you could conclude, we'll go to the next speaker.

[Lauren Latour]

Yes, absolutely.

To conclude, we urge committee members to seize the opportunity to have decision-makers play an integral role in pushing for bold and ambitious policy. On behalf of myself and Caroline, we appreciate the time today.

Thank you so much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

We will now go to Keurig Dr Pepper Canada.

You have five minutes.

[Cynthia Shanks, Director, Sustainability and Communications, Keurig Dr Pepper Canada]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

On behalf of Keurig Dr Pepper Canada, KDP, thank you for the opportunity to briefly outline our approach to sustainability. In our view, this approach is consistent with the committee's motion and its desire to support industries in their transition to more sustainable practices as part of a green economic recovery.

Our company is focused on achieving concrete goals and sustainability. Eco-design and the circular economy are central to our business strategy. Over the past few years, our company has reached several major sustainability milestones in Canada. Here are some examples.

We converted all K-Cup pods to recyclable format in 2018 and did the same with Mott's Fruitsations cups. As of 2018, our Montreal facility no longer sends any residual material to landfill. We now incorporate post-consumer recycled plastic into two of our signature coffeemakers. This large-scale initiative, in cooperation with a Canadian plastic processor, is contributing to the development of a local circular economy.

Since 2020, our use of recycled plastic in the K-Mini line of coffeemakers has enabled us to reduce our use of virgin plastic by one million pounds, and that's just the beginning. In the coming months, we will be using bottles made entirely of recycled polyethylene terephthalate, PET, for some of our flagship brands of cold drinks.

The current pandemic has had a significant impact on our economy and is forcing us to reinvent ourselves to plan a recovery that will allow us to emerge stronger. We truly believe that this is an opportunity to rethink our ways of doing business to make them more sustainable, and the circular economy seems to us to be the way forward to help maximize the environmental and economic benefits of this recovery. It's a vision that we apply horizontaly across our organization.

Let me add a few more details about our circular economy goals. By the end of 2025, KDP wants to make our packaging fully recyclable or compostable and to use 30% post-consumer recycled materials in all our packaging.

Ultimately, we wish to incorporate as much recycled material as possible into all of our products, including our coffeemakers, pods, PET bottles, aluminum cans and all of our cartons. We're also working to develop sustainable alternatives to can rings to help the Government of Canada meet its plastic waste reduction targets. However, this work takes time and resources, and we want to ensure that we choose a solution that is sustainable in the long term and truly beneficial by considering all potential environmental impacts, including greenhouse gas emissions.

Our experience in this area has shown us that finding truly sustainable solutions relies on cooperation. For example, Keurig Dr Pepper is a founding member of the Circular Plastics Taskforce. This coalition of Canadian companies aims to optimize plastics recycling to build a circular economy in this country using a reverse engineering concept. The goal is to create better alignment between the recovery and recycling value chain and end markets for recycled resins.

In January of this year, Keurig also became a founding signatory of the Canada Plastics Pact, and we pledge to contribute to collective efforts to achieve the pact's four ambitious goals.

Engagement in our community is also integral to our approach to sustainability. Since the start of the pandemic, we have seen increased opportunities to support frontline workers and food banks across the country. Our roots have been in the Saint-Michel community in Montreal for decades; we have always cared about the well-being of the neighbourhood and its residents. That is why we are proud to be part of the vaccination effort against COVID-19 in our borough, alongside recognized partners and public health. Our vaccination hub will therefore open at the end of May in a neighbourhood that has been particularly affected and vulnerable since the pandemic began.

As for our other sustainability commitments, I could say how important it is for Canadians to buy products that come from responsible sources, as is the case for all the coffee we buy around the world. I could also tell you about our greenhouse gas reduction targets, which are science-based, and many other initiatives to support Canadians and engage our employees.

In conclusion, I would like to reiterate our willingness and commitment to continue partnering with the Government of Canada as it strives to achieve its current and long-term sustainability goals. We strongly believe in the collaboration efforts between the government, our industry and consumers to create a circular economy.

I thank you for your attention.

I would be happy to answer any questions you may have.

Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

We will now go to Mr. Travis Allan from AddÉnergie.

Welcome to INDU, sir. You have the floor for five minutes.

[Travis Allan, Vice-President, Public Affairs and General Counsel, AddÉnergie Technologies Inc.]

Good morning, everyone.

Madam Chair, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to participate in your study on the economic recovery from the COVID-19 pandemic.

I would also like to say thanks to the folks who helped me figure out my technical problems and to you for your patience.

I work at a company called AddÉnergie, which was founded by our CEO in 2009 in Quebec City. It was actually built out of his master's project, so this is a real example of the commercialization of academic work. Over the last decade, our company has grown to more than 200 employees. Our Shawinigan plant has built over 40,000 charging stations that have been distributed across North America. We have a network operations centre and R and D lab in Quebec City and also in Montreal.

While we are a very proud Quebec company, we are expanding rapidly. We have deployed stations all across Canada up to the Yukon, as well as in the United States. We've done custom-mounted curbside stations in Los Angeles. We just announced this morning that we're deploying over 100 stations in New York City and also in the Midwest. We're also a proud Canadian company with a heavily Canadian supply chain, with approximately 85% of expenses paid to Canadian suppliers.

COVID for our industry had a significant effect. It did lead to a drop in demand, as companies limited their capital expenditures while they were trying to make sure they weren't spending too much money on things that could be avoided and were planning out the global economic response to COVID, but it is bouncing back. To give you an example from our company, we're bigger than when the pandemic started. We're investing in expanding our Quebec production facilities. We're also looking at a new U.S. plant to try to help serve that market.

As we emerge from this crisis, I think there are some really important questions that all of us need to be asking and that Canadians are asking themselves. The first one is how we make the most of the opportunity to refocus our economy, and how we set ourselves to succeed in the new net-zero world we are working towards.

In our area, which broadly defined is the transportation sector, Canadians are going back to work. That means the transportation emissions for those who drive personal vehicles will rise again. We know that Canada has new ambitious climate targets, including a reduction of 40% to 45% by 2030. Our allies in the United States have set the target of a 50% to 52% reduction over the same time period.

The answer is that if we're going to meet those climate targets, what needs to happen to the transportation sector is a full-scale reduction in those emissions. Transportation creates the second-most emissions in Canada, and it's growing. If we want to actually get to our targets without taking all of the impact out on other sectors like the oil and gas industry, we need to figure out how to deal with transportation emissions. That's why Canada and other countries are investing in charging stations and vehicle incentives. In the United States, President Biden has announced a $500,000 charging station investment to be deployed to that end.

So this is happening, but frankly, it's beyond Canada. It's happening in Europe and it's happening in Asia. This is the direction the transportation sector is going. The more specific question for Canadians is what role we want Canada to play, and what role Canadians can play in terms of jobs.

In our area, we see jobs for automotive technicians, electricians, engineers and miners because of batteries, of course. Canada has many of the resources needed for batteries. Then there are the other construction professionals who all benefit from zero-emissions vehicles—in production, the battery supply chain, the charging stations and the energy that powers them. In our little space, charging infrastructure is essential. Canadians are not likely to adopt electric vehicles if they can't see charging stations. We find that over 50% of the total cost of charging stations actually goes to local contractors who install the stations and also for the electrical power that goes to them. It's a really great opportunity for job growth.

We think that Canada can and should lead there. How do we get there? There's a bunch of policies that can help us achieve this. We can also work on government procurement, because Canada is such a major purchaser of vehicles and charging stations.

I'll just sum up by saying that I'm very pleased the committee is looking at these items. We really think that electrified transportation can be a big part of the solution here.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Mr. Allan. It's a pleasure to see you again. You presented at the Canada-U.S. committee last week.

Full disclosure, I am still a client.

We will start our round of questions. Our first six-minute round will go to MP Poilievre.

You have the floor.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Thank you.

My lead question goes to the Honourable Dan McTeague.

Mr. McTeague, here in Ontario the government, roughly 10 years ago, promised that we would create a brand new industry of wind power and solar panels to replace traditional sources of energy. To do that, they created something called the feed-in tariff, which paid the wholesale vendors of this electricity 90¢ a kilowatt hour for solar and 20¢ a kilowatt hour for wind, even though the market price for electricity in the province was about 3¢ or 4¢. In other words, we were paying about 20 times what the electricity was worth.

Now, as a result of locking in these exorbitant contracts for 25 years, the average Ontarian opens their power bill and finds that about 75% of it is not for electricity at all. It's for what's called the global adjustment, which is the subsidy we're paying for wind and solar. What have been the consequences of that?

One, we've doubled electricity prices in Ontario.

Two, we have driven people into poverty. According to the Ontario Association of Food Banks, there is something in Ontario called energy poverty, whereby people are walking in and asking for food because they can't afford to feed themselves and pay the newly doubled electricity rates.

Three, it has increased emissions, because instead of relying on zero-emission nuclear and hydro, we have ended up having to bring in more natural gas-powered electricity in order to provide base load for the intermittence of wind and solar.

Finally, we have driven many of our manufacturing jobs out of the province, because, frankly, companies can't afford to compete by running their factories on electricity that is among the highest cost in North America.

Mr. McTeague, you are a former Liberal MP. Do you worry that the monstrous new subsidies that the current government and a whole series of activists and self-serving corporate interests are advocating for will similarly harm the environment, drive up poverty and increase inequality?

[Dan McTeague]

That's a very good question. There's a lot to consider there.

I recall sitting with a former colleague of all of you, my good friend whom I introduced to the Liberal Party many years ago, Arnold Chan, when he worked for the province. He pulled me aside, ironically, at a little bistro on Yonge and Sheppard, I think in Mr. Ehsassi's riding, to suggest that the green project, the Green Energy Act, was going to leave a devastating impact on Ontarians. Ten years later, he's correct.

Of course, I look at my bill, at 5.7¢ or 5.8¢ a kilowatt hour, moving to 17¢ a kilowatt hour. These are massive increases in the cost for pretty much everyone—not just for manufacturing, as you have pointed out, but for consumers. Let's not forget that a $6.5-billion debt for the province of Ontario is also being incurred each and every year in order to, as it were, cushion the effect of these increases.

If you want an example of how not to go about pushing green energy, the Ontario model, from which many of my colleagues in the House now have really derived their push on energy, this is definitely not a model to follow.

What concerns me about all this, though, is that there is very little discussion about the fact that Canadians are seeing ever-increasing levels of costs—the cost of living and the material effect it is having on their bottom line. Is it any wonder, Mr. Poilievre, that we see MNP, insolvency trustees, coming out saying that 53% of Canadians are less than $200 away from bankruptcy?

While we talk about all these wonderful ideas about how we want to convert the rest of the world, while we are dealing with a veritable crisis—a health crisis, not a climate crisis—why are we talking about something that is completely irrelevant and perhaps devastating to the economy as a whole, at a time during which we should be rewarding and working hard to get our energy sector back up and running?

We have a great record. I was a member of Parliament for a riding [Technical difficulty—Editor] invented clean energy. Fifty years before that, we had the Adam Beck hydroelectric projects.

We have produced clean energy. We should continue down that road and emphasize technology as it comes forward [Technical difficulty—Editor] and not taxes that burden the Canadian economy at a time that is extremely sensitive for most Canadians.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Madam Chair, the sound is cutting out and we no longer have interpretation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Mr. McTeague, it looks like your Internet connection is lagging.

[Dan McTeague]

The Internet is down.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

I just paused the clock. Give us 10 seconds. I want to see if we're able to hear you, because translation cannot pick up your sound.

If you can go back about 20 seconds, we will start the clock.