Evidence of meeting #38 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was products.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
We've expanded some plants in Canada, but the opportunity in the United States is extraordinary right now. The construction sector is very hot, and we're planning on making greater expenditures down there.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Would you say that your growth will be bigger in the States than in Canada?
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
Yes.
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
Their housing market is very strong. The incentives down there for manufacturers are very good. They have had policies over the last five years that have made it very beneficial for manufacturers to repatriate to the United States. They have just been able to attract manufacturers in the United States much more than we have.
This is what I suggest for Canada: We should try to repatriate Canadian companies to expand in Canada in the same way that they have done.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
The cost of electricity in Ontario, has that caused any difficulty for manufacturing jobs, in your view?
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
Absolutely. The cost of electricity in the United States is substantially lower, except compared to Quebec. Quebec's electricity is extraordinary. We have a number of plants in Quebec, and we take advantage of that. However, for the most part, electricity prices in Canada are much higher than those in the United States.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
If the Ontario government had any brains, it would have just bought Quebec electricity, which would have made more money for Quebeckers and cost less for Ontarians. Instead, the previous Liberal government decided to pay price markups of thousands of percentage points in order to build windmills and solar panels that are worse for the environment than hydroelectricity from Quebec is.
Have you noticed in Ontario the price difference for energy since the Green Energy Act was brought into place?
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
It's absolutely extraordinary. The Green Energy Act jacked up prices very significantly. We went from eight cents, nine cents, 10¢ per kilowatt hour to 21¢ to 22¢. Some members of the Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers are paying 28¢ per kilowatt hour, so that makes it—
Conservative
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
Yes.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
This is a cautionary tale of when government forces citizens to pay higher prices for electricity in order to subsidize the favoured technologies of central planners. What ends up happening is that you drive jobs and businesses out of the jurisdiction and into lower-cost energy jurisdictions like the ones where your company is expanding the greatest. Is that a fair statement?
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
It's a very fair statement.
Canada has so many resources. It seems that we're our own worst enemy. We are restricting our market opportunities. We are putting in obstacles all over the place.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
This gatekeeper economy makes it harder to get things built. When you do get it built, you have to pay higher energy prices to subsidize trendy and well-lobbied-for energy companies. If you can manage to run a profit after that, you pay higher taxes. It is no wonder we're losing our manufacturing base to the United States and to other foreign jurisdictions.
Speaking of the United States.... We don't have a lot of time, but I can summarize. Under the previous government, Stephen Harper was able to garner an exemption to buy America. Has this government garnered an exemption to buy America so far?
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
No, not yet.
Mr. Poilievre, I think you remember how active the government was in getting that exemption. You participated in some of that. We'd love to see the same thing right now.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
It would be good for jobs.
They failed on buy America. They have failed on softwood lumber. Now they're failing on keeping Line 5 open.
For my final question, can you give a list of essential products and services that would be illegal if the government bans plastic as a toxic?
Board Member, Coalition of Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada
The problem with calling plastics toxic is that you'll have to label the products as they across the border. All of a sudden, they'll become a hazardous good. There's no way that this needs to be done. The issue is litter. The issue is not toxicity. There's no scientific study that shows that plastic is toxic.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you so much.
We will now go to MP Jowhari. You have the floor for five minutes.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses for their testimony today.
I'm going to go to Mr. Kung. Welcome to our committee.
In your opening remarks, as one of your recommendations, you talked about how we should look inward. You also highlighted that Tavos is working with the Canadian Association of PPE Manufacturers.
Can you share with us what you exactly mean by looking inward?
Director of Sales and Business Development, Tavos Industries Inc.
Yes, of course. Thank you for the question.
By looking inward, I mean specifically with tenders. A lot of bids are awarded to companies who have either imported from China or India, especially with PPE. You have a list of 30 to 50 local manufacturers, as well as right here in Ontario where we do have a little network between ourselves. The very large company that can import these at a fraction of our cost is the one that always wins.
The problem with that is that we see a lot of problems with the quality of the PPE that actually gets dispersed to the general public, such as in Quebec with the graphene masks. Those masks contain graphene. It wasn't concluded yet, but graphene is not meant for people to inhale in a consistent or large amount. It somehow ended up that 164 million masks were sent around all throughout Quebec to staff and students. That was a very large problem for us.
All of that could have been avoided if we had looked inward and purchased Canadian masks, which we actually sew. CAPPEM actually invested over $100 million collectively in creating PPE machines and ventilators, etc. If we paid more attention to what we have right now on our own Canadian soil, I feel like we could avoid a lot of these problems.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Do you think, based on the data you have, that we have the capacity to be able to not only fulfill the demand of Canadians but also be in a position to export?
Can you share some data around that with us?
Director of Sales and Business Development, Tavos Industries Inc.
Absolutely.
One of the companies we partner with in CAPPEM is Canada Masq. Canada Masq is also a very new company right here in Richmond Hill, located minutes from our warehouse. They have the contract for 250 million masks for the entire Government of Ontario. I am helping them in terms of scalability and exposure for their products.
They can manufacture anywhere between three million to five million masks every single week. Anthony, the CEO of Canada Masq, is a wonderful entrepreneur as well. They have plans for expansion to manufacture up to 50 million masks a week. At that capacity, we can definitely export some of our PPE.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
Are you in a position to be able to share the difference in costs? You talked about the quality, but it looks like you're highlighting the fact that, despite the fact that we have sufficient local manufacturing capacity across Canada not only to be able to meet our demand but also to export, we are still at a disadvantage. Can you share some price points around the difference and why the difference is there?
Director of Sales and Business Development, Tavos Industries Inc.
Absolutely.
It all comes down to labour. In terms of the price of the machine and the price of the material, it's all rather the same. Right now we are facing a massive shortage in containers as well. The price point for us to import raw materials is very high, especially from countries that have a manufacturing capacity for mask output, let's say, that's a thousand times more than we have as a small association.
Their labour is 10 times cheaper than Canadian labour. That's one of the only strongest single factors that I can think of, at the moment, that has a direct correlation with why we lose—why, as a group of Canadian PPE manufacturers, we lose most of the time.
Liberal
Majid Jowhari Liberal Richmond Hill, ON
If you could source at least the raw materials at a much more favourable price, then the only issue remaining for us would be the labour. Is that true?