Industry Committee on May 13th, 2021

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Right.

[Mark P. Mills]

It just takes time to.... Even if tomorrow in Canada, which as I've said before is friendlier with the United States, with the new mines—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Right.

[Mark P. Mills]

—I think you've already experienced the challenge in northern Quebec—

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Yes.

[Mark P. Mills]

—and in neighbouring Greenland. That is what it takes to open a new rare earth mine.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Well, the opening any mine in this country is subject to a lot of governmental delay. We have some of the slowest and most cumbersome processes to even get the government out of the way and let construction begin.

China powers many of its industrial and mining activities with coal-fired electricity. In other words, we increase global emissions of greenhouse gases whenever we drive more production to China. Given that the component parts of electric automobiles come from coal-fired mines in China, when you look at the life cycle of the vehicle—including its original mining and production through to the disposal of the vehicle—is it true that electric vehicles have lower emissions than, say, small Toyota Corollas or Honda Civics?

[Mark P. Mills]

Really, the honest scientific answer is, “We don't know.” The slogan “reduces emissions” is actually not knowable. However, we do know, when we look at the points you raised, that it can be the case, depending on the exact source of the minerals, that an EV driven in Canada emits more carbon dioxide to the atmosphere than a very efficient, best-in-class internal combustion engine. I think that's a serious problem to sort out.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Right. Presumably, the reason we are subsidizing these electric vehicles is that they are supposedly better for the environment. If the production of the battery technology...if the mining of the minerals that go into the vehicle emits far more greenhouse gases than are saved by having that vehicle on the road, then it is a counterproductive subsidy. Would you, in a word, agree with that?

[Mark P. Mills]

Absolutely. It's profoundly counterproductive.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

On that point, just yesterday, Elon Musk announced that he is no longer accepting payment in Bitcoin. Why? Because Bitcoin is mined using fossil-fuel-powered electricity. Can you confirm today that his automotive company, Tesla, has decided it will no longer source any raw materials from China that are extracted in mines or manufacturing facilities powered by coal-fired electricity?

[Mark P. Mills]

He didn't make the comparable pledge. He should also pledge to stop using the Internet. The global Internet uses twice as much electricity as the country of Japan and is necessarily fuelled—at the same ratio as the rest of the planet—with hydrocarbons. Forty per cent of the global Internet is coal-fired and 30% is natural-gas-fired. We should stop doing the Zooming we're doing right now, because we're consuming hydrocarbons all over the planet.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Mr. Poilievre.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Can I make one quick, concluding remark?

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Make it very quickly.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Carleton, ON]

Yesterday Mr. Musk said he is no longer going to use Bitcoin. Today he'll announce that he's not going to import any more Chinese minerals for his automobiles, and tomorrow he'll announce that he's cancelling the Internet altogether.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, MP Poilievre.

We will now go to MP Lemire.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

This meeting is making us realize how important it is to bring the various sectors together, especially in the regions. The contribution of civil society and artists and their creativity is obvious. This can clearly have an effect on industry.

Mr. Rousson, we also saw the influence that your institution, as a research university, can have on regional economic development.

Can you please give us more concrete examples? In the northern regions, such as Abitibi, Bay James, the north-east bordering Ontario, Nunavik and northern Quebec, how can UQAT's research help green the economy?

I am referring to the work done by Mr. Vincent Poirier in agriculture, such as soil carbon sequestration, as well as the efforts of Mr. Osvaldo Valeria in forestry and those of the Institut de recherche en mines et environnement, the IRME, in the mining sector.

Over to you.

[Vincent Rousson]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

That's a great question. In terms of the work done by universities in regions such as ours, but not only ours, I have to say that nature is all around us and we are in direct contact with stakeholders. As Ms. Aubry mentioned, the flexibility that we enjoy in our work and our operations allows us to go to the heart of the problem in order to find a solution. It's precisely because we have direct ties with stakeholders in the region that we are able to find innovative solutions and suggest to industrial players that they can do things differently.

We have different approaches in terms of carbon sequestration, depending on whether it is the northern coast, Témiscamingue or near the Pontiac region. Mr. Généreux, I am thinking of you. Our university works with educational institutions in his region. He spoke of the Institut de technologie agroalimentaire. There is also the Cégep de Victoriaville which offers a full suite of courses on organic agriculture. How can we do things differently? This will have a profoundly different impact. The first nations and the Inuit are also making us look at things through a new lens. How do we help the economy and further development?

We have been working closely with the Cree communities for nearly 40 years. These people are entrepreneurs. They want to develop their economy and protect the environment, and have a stake in research.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You have 30 seconds left.

[Vincent Rousson]

It's by linking up the academic institutions, the universities everywhere in Canada and by having those relationships with the various sectors that we will find innovative solutions. The Lake Osisko project, which Ms. Aubry spoke of, is a fine example of an initiative that brings together people from the social and the cultural sectors, the universities and the businesses. That's when the magic happens.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You therefore seek to improve the funding allocated to each university research project. I hear you.

Thank you, Mr. Rousson.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'm going to ask Mr. Galt a question about plastics, because I know he works with them extensively. I was very proud of the work we got done. It was a motion I had in the House of Commons that was passed, and that was then followed through by the Harper administration in terms of regulation banning microbeads. Those were some of the plastics that were in your toothpaste, in your shampoo and so forth.

I know that all plastics are not created equally, so I do understand the differences, but perhaps you could delve into that a little bit, because I think what we're looking at is trying to find the balance of the single-use and unnecessary plastics versus some of the plastics that we use for lightening the weight of cars and other types of mechanics of different machines and so forth that could be more useful.

Can you give a little insight about that, please, Mr. Galt?

[John Galt]

Certainly. I'll do it efficiently to try not to get the red flag or yellow flag here.