Evidence of meeting #39 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was research.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:35 p.m.
NDP
Brian Masse NDP Windsor West, ON
It's okay; you have two minutes here. If you get the flag, you won't be kicked from the game, but you have two minutes.
12:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
The first thing is the broader use of the word “plastics”. Everybody defines it differently.
We talk about microplastics. A lot of the focus is on microplastics. The number one source of microplastics in the oceans is tire residue. The next top two sources of microplastics in the ocean are fibres—when you wash your clothes and they become lighter—and road markings. Most people lump that all in.
First of all, I think I have to narrow it down to say that there are a lot of man-made materials that find their way into the environment—and that's why I'm such an advocate of better recovery systems—that are defined as plastics. However, if we narrow it down to the ones that we're mostly familiar with, let's say the ones that are in a bottle or a particular package of materials, the most common materials used for packaging have been chosen because, first, they're medical grade. They're completely stable molecules. They're completely hygienic. They don't interact with the substance inside. That's why an aluminum can has a plastic liner, every one in the world; otherwise, there would be a reaction between the contents and the aluminum. That's the first reason.
The second thing is that there are about three grades of plastic that represent most of the things we use: PET, polypropylene, and polyethylenes. The thing that a lot of people don't appreciate is that they're very versatile materials. A bottle and a blood tube are made out of the same material. The heart stent that goes to correct in heart surgery is made out of the same material.
The first thing we have to appreciate is that there's a family of materials that are highly used, very hygienic and very recyclable.
Second, there's a category of what I would call “hybrid materials”. That's where you're mixing two types of materials, or let's say, overusing materials. That's why lightweighting and finding smarter ways to get the performance you need without these composite structures are part of what's a big focus in the industry.
Hopefully that helps a bit.
12:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you so much.
We'll now go to MP Poilievre.
You have the floor for five minutes.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Mr. Galt, I'll give you the opportunity to tell our committee what essentials of life require plastic. I'm leaving it open-ended.
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
That's a big subject.
I brought a few samples in, which are real projects we're involved in. In fact, 73% of every medical device in the world uses plastic, and that number has been growing by about 2.5% per year. It's unbreakable, hygienic and mouldable. That's big.
I could bring EpiPens and blood tubes. Last week, I was working on new syringes, because as a result of the pandemic, we found that we have a global shortage of one- and three-gram syringes. We're talking about new releases of technology for syringes that also protect health care workers better.
Shampoo bottles and cellphones couldn't be made. We provide technology to help make these devices today. There's not an electronic communication device that wouldn't use plastic. Cars, makeup and the containers for the food and beverage we're familiar with, glasses, contact lenses and all the PPE used today use it.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
Nothing important....
It's also Canadian money. I don't know what you think of that.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Well, it's becoming less and less valuable, so maybe that's not the best example.
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
Yes, it's in everything: the chair I'm sitting on, the table I'm working at, the carpet that's on the floor, the manufacture of the wallpaper, what goes into the wallpaper and that thermostat on the wall. I could go on.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
How easy would it be to just replace all of that plastic with something else?
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
It would not be possible today.
12:40 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Presumably all the people whose lives are saved by these medical devices would then be lost. All the devices that make our quality of life infinitely more advanced than it was in the past would be gone, and so too would the quality of life on which we depend. The kids who are standing in protest and demanding a ban on plastic would not be able to organize that protest, because their phones would not be possible without plastic; and they wouldn't be able to get to the protest in the first place, because of the plastic that's required to make their automobiles.
Really, regarding this idea of declaring plastic to be a toxin, what do you think will be the impact on our lives here in Canada if it goes ahead?
12:40 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
It will drive two important streams of investment out of Canada.
First of all, 370,000 people in Canada rely on it. Are you going to invest in Canada versus a market that is responsive, supportive and encouraging investment south of the border? Absolutely you're going to move south of the border. That's why many of these large plans have stopped.
The second thing is that, as the pandemic proved, Canada is completely dependent upon medical devices from foreign entities. I have the percentages here. I won't go into them. We don't have a domestic industry for our own supply of these absolutely critical items. Who is going to set up shop here to do that?
We build the tooling to do it. We sell the tooling to foreign nations. Those foreign nations export those goods to Canada. Why aren't we building domestic supply chains for these crucial items? I don't get it.
It's just going to drive investment out, it's going to make us more dependent on foreign entities, and we're still going to require these items every day. That's not solving the problem. We need to be responsible.
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
Just buying them from abroad doesn't solve the problem.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
Right, and that's just what we do with oil. We've prevented the construction of a nationwide pipeline, so we have to import oil from abroad in eastern Canada, and right now we're in the embarrassing position of having to ask the Governor of Michigan to sell Canadian energy to Canadian consumers because we can't build our own pipeline connecting all our Canadian provinces. We're going to do the same thing with plastics and drive production out of the country.
We won't stop using plastic, by the way. We'll just buy it from foreigners who will make all the money and take all the jobs while we pay for it by credit card. That is currently the direction of our country.
Why can't we just reverse that approach and produce and recycle the plastic here in Canada in an environmentally responsible way? You're the expert on this. Can we make that happen?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
Absolutely. Canada has the potential with its natural resources, with the recyclability in Canada, with the technology here, to establish itself as a global leader, and I mean a global leader, in turning waste into resources, into recovering and reprocessing those resources and putting higher-valued secondary quality goods back to the Canadian public, creating jobs and safeguarding us in a future pandemic.
Without a doubt, we can do that.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Pierre Poilievre Conservative Carleton, ON
How does plastic rank as a recyclable material?
When I was a kid growing up, my teachers always told me the best way you can help the environment is to reuse and recycle. Is plastic well ranked as a recyclable material?
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
I got a red flag from the chair. I don't know if I can answer.
12:45 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd.
It has the lowest environmental footprint, lowest NG content, lowest energy use to recycle of any competitive material.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado
Thank you very much.
We'll now go to MP Ehsassi. You have the floor for five minutes.
12:45 p.m.
Liberal
Ali Ehsassi Liberal Willowdale, ON
Thank you, Madam Chair; and thank you to all of the witnesses for appearing before committee today.
Mr. Mills, I wonder if I could pick up where you left off. You were explaining to us the need to stimulate innovation and risk-taking, and things of that nature.
Given that you explained to us how it's important to incentivize risk-taking to spur innovation, I take it that you look at it from a comparative context. What jurisdiction or country would you say has done the best job on that particular front?
12:45 p.m.
Senior Fellow, Manhattan Institute
Traditionally, it has been the United States and Canada. This has been the epicentre of new business development. New small business formation has been in North America, not in Europe. In fact, whatever measure you use to look at new companies, new formation of companies, North America has been, up until very recently, what we'll call the “friendliest jurisdiction” in which to be an innovator, an entrepreneur or a small business.
That has become more difficult, certainly in some areas, especially resource extraction. Most small, privately funded mines have left the United States a long time ago, and Canada has had the same trouble. However, it has been the best jurisdiction.
Germany, France and Italy have lagged. This is not a criticism of them as people; it's just the reality of the governance.
Let's go back to BlackBerry, the beginning of the smart phone revolution. It's traced to Canada, frankly, and then the United States, of course, because Apple did one better. I still like my BlackBerry, by the way. I don't use one anymore, for obvious reasons.
Those are good examples.
We hope and expect to have that kind of innovation in physical resource areas like mining and oil and gas. It's a tougher one because they're [Technical difficulty--Editor] industries. Innovation is harder because of the scales involved, but not impossible.