Evidence of meeting #4 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was satellites.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Daniel Goldberg  President and Chief Executive Officer, Telesat
Patricia Cooper  Vice-President, Satellite Government Affairs, Space Exploration Technologies Corp.
Stephen Hampton  Manager, Government Affairs and Public Policy, Telesat
Michele Beck  Vice-President of Sales, North America, Telesat

11:05 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

Good morning, all. I now call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting four of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House order of September 23, 2020. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website. So that you are aware, the webcast will always show the person speaking rather than the entirety of the committee. To ensure an orderly meeting, I'd like to outline a few rules to follow.

Members and witnesses may speak in the official language of their choice. Interpretation services are available for this meeting. You have the choice at the bottom of your screen of floor, English or French.

For members participating in person, proceed as you usually would when the whole committee is meeting in person in a committee room. Keep in mind the directives from the Board of Internal Economy regarding masking and health protocols.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you by name. If you are on video conference, please click on the microphone icon to unmute your mike. For those in the room, your microphone will be controlled as normal by the proceedings and verification officer.

This is a reminder that all comments by members and witnesses should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your mike should be on mute. With regard to a speaking list, the committee clerk and I will do our best to maintain the order of speaking for all members, whether they are participating virtually or in person.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the committee is meeting today to commence study on the accessibility and affordability of telecommunications services.

As is my normal practice, I will hold up a yellow card when you have 30 seconds left in your intervention, and I will hold up a red card when your time for questions has expired.

Now I'd like to welcome today's witnesses. From Telesat, we have Mr. Daniel Goldberg, president and chief executive officer; Mr. Stephen Hampton, manager, government affairs and public policy; and Ms. Michele Beck, vice-president of sales, North America. From Space Exploration Technologies Corporation, we have Ms. Patricia Cooper, vice-president, satellite government affairs.

Each witness will present for up to seven minutes, followed by rounds of questions.

With that, I will turn it over to Telesat. You have the floor for seven minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Daniel Goldberg President and Chief Executive Officer, Telesat

Merci.

Good morning, one and all.

Madam Chair, thank you for inviting Telesat to participate today.

I’m Dan Goldberg, CEO of Telesat. I’m here this morning, as you said, with my colleagues Michele Beck and Stephen Hampton.

Operating for over 50 years, with our headquarters here in Ottawa, where I'm speaking from today, Telesat is one of the world’s largest, most successful satellite operators. As a proud Canadian company, we play a central role in Canada’s connectivity infrastructure. Today our satellites transmit hundreds of television channels to well over a million Canadian households across all of Canada through our services to Bell TV and Shaw Direct. We provide broadband and other lifeline services to rural, remote and indigenous communities, and we deliver mission critical services to Canada’s national security and public safety community. That's just some of what we do here in Canada. We offer these same types of services all around the world.

We operate in what is one of the most highly competitive global markets, including here in Canada, where the market has been wide open to foreign competitors for more than the last two decades. We're good with that. We strongly support open, competitive markets, as they spur innovation and lower costs. Telesat needs and advocates for open markets all around the world, even if we don't always get them.

We strongly share this committee’s objective of delivering affordable, high-capacity broadband to the millions of Canadians who lack it today, which is now more important than ever given the pandemic. Telesat has been a leading innovator in providing broadband over satellite, designing and launching the first broadband satellite in the world over a decade and a half ago. However, the reality is that the geostationary satellites we’ve been launching and operating for the past 50 years, even though each new generation is much more capable than the last one, are simply too far out in space to provide the kind of superfast, affordable broadband needed today.

That's why we've undertaken the most ambitious and innovative project in our long history, a multi-billion dollar, state-of-the-art low-earth orbit, or LEO, satellite constellation. Telesat LEO consists of nearly 300 highly advanced satellites that deliver affordable, fibre-like broadband and enable LTE and 5G wireless services everywhere on earth, including throughout all of Canada. It's the biggest space program ever conceived in Canada, and it's exactly what this vast country needs to help bridge the digital divide.

Telesat LEO takes a holistic, community-focused approach to connect Canadians by partnering with local ISPs, mobile network operators, municipalities and indigenous communities. Telesat LEO will provide affordable, high-capacity backbone connectivity to a community, and then our local partner will provide the last-mile connectivity to households, schools, hospitals, small businesses and the like, as well as LTE and 5G services in the community and throughout the entire country.

Telesat LEO was designed in Canada by Canadians, and MIT researchers recently concluded that it's the most effectively designed LEO constellation being developed. We expect that the satellites and some of their key components will be built right here in Canada. From here in the national capital region, we'll operate the constellation and manage all of the global traffic that traverses it. Because of this, Telesat LEO will deliver tremendous economic and social benefits to Canada, helping to create roughly 1,000 jobs, generating valuable IP and exports and positioning Canada at the forefront of the burgeoning new space economy that, of course, will help to bridge the digital divide here as well. We plan to launch beta services in roughly two years' time, with commercial service coming online in 2023.

Some of the most innovative and well-financed companies in the world are developing their own LEO constellations, including SpaceX, and I’m very pleased to be testifying alongside them this morning.

SpaceX is a long-time partner. It launched our last two satellites. I'll note that Ms. Cooper, who is testifying as well, is an old and dear friend of mine and a colleague. We've worked hard to open up markets all over the world to competition.

I'm very pleased to see in that regard that SpaceX has been authorized to serve Canada with its Starlink constellation. Bridging the digital divide is a massive challenge, and no one company can solve it alone.

Other major players working on LEO include Amazon; OneWeb, which is backed by the U.K. government; and China and Russia, countries that recognize both the strategic and economic importance of LEO. All these players share a conviction that LEO is a compelling way to deliver affordable broadband to people living and working in rural and remote places, which in turn will foster a more equitable, inclusive economy and society.

Telesat is a recognized global leader in satellite communications, and our Telesat LEO constellation leverages our deep technical, operational and commercial expertise and our deeply ingrained culture of innovation. Our industry is highly dynamic and competitive, now perhaps more than at any time in our 50-year history, and we're very much in the midst of a high-stakes, highly competitive global space race. With focused execution and our world-class team of professionals, I have every confidence that we're going to be a winner in this race, keeping Telesat and Canada at the forefront of the fast-growing new space economy and bridging the digital divide here at home and throughout the rest of the world as well.

Thank you again for the opportunity to participate in this important hearing. My colleagues and I look forward to answering any questions you may have for us.

Thank you.

11:15 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

Thank you very much, Mr. Goldberg.

We now turn the floor over to Ms. Cooper.

You have the floor for seven minutes.

11:15 a.m.

Patricia Cooper Vice-President, Satellite Government Affairs, Space Exploration Technologies Corp.

Chairwoman Romanado, Vice-Chairmen Cumming and Lemire and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology today on behalf of SpaceX and our Starlink broadband system. The committee’s hearing on accessibility and affordability of telecommunications services is timely and critically important.

As this committee is well aware, COVID-19 has brought into high relief the urgent need for universal, affordable high-speed broadband access. Even before the pandemic, though, Canada’s connectivity strategy noted that “rural and remote communities have identified challenges accessing affordable, high-speed Internet as the number one issue impeding their economic growth.”

With Starlink recently authorized by ISED to offer services throughout Canada, SpaceX looks forward to helping to close the digital divide in Canada, particularly in remote and rural areas that most suffer from broadband gaps.

By way of background, SpaceX today is the world’s largest launch services provider measured by missions under contract. We design, manufacture and launch our reusable Falcon launch vehicles and spacecraft for missions to earth orbit and ultimately beyond.

In this endeavour, SpaceX has had a long and productive partnership with Canada and Canadian industry. In June of last year, for example, SpaceX successfully lofted into orbit three RCM satellites built by MDA for the Canadian Space Agency’s RADARSAT constellation. In 2018, as Dan noted, SpaceX, over the course of two separate missions, launched Telesat’s Telstar 19 Vantage and 18 Vantage telecommunications satellites.

Perhaps most notably, in March 2019, Canadian astronaut David Saint-Jacques became the first person to enter the Crew Dragon spacecraft while attached to the International Space Station, an important marker on the path to Crew-1, the first operational crew mission to the ISS that SpaceX successfully launched this past Sunday for our partner NASA and last night docked.

Given this history, SpaceX is proud to be embarking on another journey with Canada with Starlink, our next-generation space-based Internet system that will deliver high-speed broadband to locations where access has been unreliable, expensive or completely unavailable. SpaceX wishes to thank Minister Bains, Minister Monsef, the professional staff at ISED’s spectrum planning and engineering office, the CRTC, Global Affairs Canada, Natural Resources Canada and many others, including members of this committee, for working with us throughout the regulatory process.

We are putting our Canadian approvals to good use. Within a week of receiving our licences, SpaceX began shipping Starlink kits into Canada for our early customers, including indigenous communities, and we are starting our public beta rollout for Canadians as we speak.

Canadians are increasingly relying on the Internet. Statistics Canada shows that the share of Canadians age 15 and older using the Internet rose from 83% in 2012 to 91% in 2018. As consumer demands on speed and capacity continue to grow, however, disparities in access and competitive choice persist for many communities. Indeed, 60% of rural Canadian households lack access to broadband, defined as 50 megabits per second down and 10 megabits per second up.

As a result, the Canadian government has established a bold and historic commitment: to connect 98% of Canadians across the country to high-speed Internet within the next six years and all Canadians by 2030.

Importantly, the government focused its initiatives on several key areas, including rapid deployment to address broadband gaps during the pandemic; diversity in technology pathways, recognizing that no single solution will suffice to support all Canadians; scalability, to ensure networks can grow as demand and uses of the Internet change over time; affordability; and, network quality and resiliency, particularly in the rugged environments in the north.

SpaceX strongly supports these goals, and I therefore want to direct the remainder of my statement to discussing how Starlink aligns with them.

As an initial matter, Starlink is a technology ideally suited for Canada. The constellation of Starlink satellites flying close to the earth will reach across Canada’s vast territory, whether small rural communities, rugged mountains or craggy coastlines, where the cost to deploy more traditional solutions often inhibits a return on investment and consequently defers infrastructure build-out.

Even in its current beta phase, Starlink exceeds Canada’s requirements of 50/10 megabits per second per user. Our early beta testing in the United States is demonstrating speeds of over 100 megabits per second to individual households, with latencies of less than 40 milliseconds.

Even in remote locations Canadians will have access to broadband with the performance necessary for remote learning, teleworking, telehealth, video conferencing and even competitive gaming.

With nearly 900 Starlink satellites already in orbit, Starlink is able to provide service to large portions of Canada now, including parts of British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario and Atlantic Canada.

As we continue to launch satellites and with future regulatory approvals in Canada, Starlink will reach even higher latitudes in the other provinces and even in the north. Because Starlink consumer equipment involves a plug-and-play device, deployment speeds become a matter of shipping timelines. Therefore, Starlink certainly is rapidly deployable.

SpaceX is well known for continually iterating and improving our technology. For the Starlink system this means incremental innovation in both our satellites in space and the consumer equipment on the ground. This iterative approach to system design allows us to inject feedback and both improve performance and expand available capacity on an ongoing basis.

The feedback from our early beta testing in the U.S. and Canada will allow us to fine-tune the Starlink service offerings over time, and with the ongoing addition of more satellites, the system can scale as market demand grows and can adjust to the ever-evolving use of the Internet.

Since our first deployment 18 months ago, SpaceX has established a regular cadence of two Starlink launches, totalling 120 satellites per month, and set a record last month alone of deploying 180 Starlink satellites.

Finally, affordability is a key factor for SpaceX since Starlink is fundamentally optimized as a direct consumer service. SpaceX is designing the system from end to end with cost effectiveness and reliability in mind. As our services grow and we transition from low- to high-volume production, we remain focused on further lowering the cost.

Madam Chair and members of the committee, thank you again for the opportunity to participate in this hearing. We're poised to offer reliable high-speed Starlink broadband to Canadians across the country.

I look forward to answering any questions you might have.

Thank you.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

Thank you very much.

We will now start our first round of questions, beginning with MP Cumming.

You have the floor for six minutes.

11:20 a.m.

Conservative

James Cumming Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you to our two witnesses. It's interesting to have two partners yet two competitors here speaking to the committee. I want to start with Mr. Goldberg.

Mr. Goldberg, you have received a commitment for funding of $600 million from the federal government. How does that help your expansion program and deal with, of course, this tremendous problem we have in Canada with broadband service to rural communities?

11:20 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Telesat

Daniel Goldberg

Telesat has been in business and providing services around the world for about 50 years, and our model, as Ms. Cooper highlighted, is a little bit different. We're not providing a direct-to-consumer solution. We're working as we have for decades with telephone companies, ISPs, municipalities and the like.

What is helpful for Telesat about that commitment from the government is that it provides us with sort of an anchor customer here in Canada, which is useful as we're obtaining the financing to build out our system. I mentioned in my testimony that this investment we're making is a multi-, multi-billion dollar investment, the biggest investment Telesat has ever made, and we've already invested billions of dollars in our satellite fleet.

Our lenders, as you can imagine, want to make sure that we're going to be in a position to pay them back, so having a committed contract like that with the Government of Canada with a sovereign user is helpful as we get our financing in place.

I would also note that it's a great deal for the government. They have a big country to connect up. We agreed to provide 140 gigabits of very high-capacity, low-latency, very reliable services at an extraordinarily low cost, multiples lower than what exists in the market today. So it's a good deal for the government, but it was helpful for Telesat too as we get this massive investment financed.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

James Cumming Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

It looks as though the launch of your LEO satellite program will be two years out or more. I have two questions for you related to that.

What could Telesat do in the interim to try to help with the issues that we have with broadband across rural Canada? What's the barrier to moving more quickly? Your competitor—or maybe not a direct competitor because of the model—is certainly moving at a much more advanced pace.

11:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Telesat

Daniel Goldberg

Listen. Right now we're providing broadband connectivity services across all of Canada, and we've been doing that for a long time.

We have more capacity and ability to expand services in almost all the communities we're serving today. We're working with government at the federal, provincial and territorial levels. We're working with other ISPs and phone companies throughout Canada to open up those pipes.

That's something we can do, again, very quickly. We have proposals out there that would allow us to do all of that. We can make significant improvements, then, in the type of broadband capacity that almost all of these communities have in the coming months.

Sometimes it will take a little longer. We have to ship equipment up to the Far North, and depending whether we're hitting the sealift schedules and whatnot, that becomes the gating factor to getting the capacity out there.

As far as ramping up our LEO constellation is concerned, I expect we'll be making some announcements in the coming weeks about who's going to be building those satellites and who's going to be launching them. We're going to put the pedal to the metal on that program. I mentioned that these satellites are, in all likelihood, going to be built in Canada. We need to get going on it. We're about nine months behind where we wanted to be. COVID didn't help for that.

Am I worried about SpaceX? I'm worried about a lot of things in life. As I mentioned, we're in a massively competitive global environment. I have a super-high regard for SpaceX. They've been a great partner for us. They're one of the most innovative companies in the world.

Look. I applaud what they're doing. They are innovating. I'll say they're getting a massive amount of support from the U.S. government to develop the technology, whether it's rockets or satellites. Good on 'em.

Yes, I'm worried about being able to compete with SpaceX. I'm worried about our ability to compete with Amazon when they come along. It's one of the biggest companies in the world. Certainly, as I mentioned in my testimony, the Russians and the Chinese have their own plans. However, as I also mentioned, we have a great plan. We just need to get going on this. I'm very confident we're going to be successful.

11:25 a.m.

Conservative

James Cumming Conservative Edmonton Centre, AB

Thank you for that.

I want to shift to Ms. Cooper.

Thank you. I understand you're going to have a pilot here in Canada. Once you get that pilot started, what are the barriers you might run into to try to expand that service across particularly northern Canada?

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

Unfortunately, Mr. Cumming, you're out of time. Hopefully Ms. Cooper can answer that in a subsequent round.

We'll now move to MP Erskine-Smith.

You have the floor for six minutes.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

Ms. Cooper, in your testimony you spoke to cost-effectiveness and reliability. On the question of cost-effectiveness, obviously it's early days and I suppose you are delivering beta kits right now to Canadian consumers. What do you expect the cost to be for Canadian consumers for that 50/10 speed when it's up and running?

11:30 a.m.

Vice-President, Satellite Government Affairs, Space Exploration Technologies Corp.

Patricia Cooper

We actually started sending out invitations on Friday to Canadians to join what we call our Better Than Nothing Beta. It's a public beta service that consumers pay for.

At the very early end of our technology development, that beta service was offered in Canada for basically the same price as it was in the U.S two weeks earlier, just adjusted for the prevailing exchange rate.

The kit, the consumer equipment you need to connect to the satellite at the residence or the small business or office is $649. That's a one-time purchase of equipment that includes an antenna, a Wi-Fi router, a mounting tripod and a whole bunch of cables.

Then the monthly broadband service subscription is $129 Canadian. That's our offer for this public beta. Critically, there are no contracts, no early termination fees and no data caps at this point.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

It's fair to say right now that the goal is accessibility, but in some ways we aren't really addressing the affordability question in a serious way.

Maybe I'll put it to Telesat. You're way away from beta testing, but when you are looking to recoup that investment, are you in the same ballpark as those figures, or are you seeing the cost coming down significantly in your estimation?

11:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Telesat

Daniel Goldberg

I think the costs are going to come down significantly. As I mentioned, our model is a little different. We're going to be delivering gigabits of capacity to remote communities throughout Canada, and then our partners, ISPs, mobile network operators, indigenous bands and the like, will take our capacity and distribute it throughout their community.

At the price points to which we are going to make that capacity available to them, yes, they should be able to meet the CRTC definition of broadband connectivity at even lower rates.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

What would that price point be?

11:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Telesat

Daniel Goldberg

Ultimately it's going to be up to our customers to define it.

It's hard for me to say. It's going to be offered by Bell. It will be offered by different municipalities and the like. I know what we're going to be providing them that service for. Beyond that, I can't say exactly what their offering will be.

I don't know if one of my colleagues has any contribution they want to make.

Stephen.

November 17th, 2020 / 11:30 a.m.

Stephen Hampton Manager, Government Affairs and Public Policy, Telesat

Yes. Thanks, Dan.

I'll just add quickly that the biggest obstacle and barrier to delivering affordable broadband to really remote and rural communities typically is the backhaul component or backbone. With satellite, we'll be able to deliver it at a much more affordable rate, which should contribute to delivering more affordable prices to consumers.

11:30 a.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

I get that. In terms of my expectation, $129 is not so affordable, but I understand it's a beta kit and you're in very early days. I would assume that there is upfront significant investment and you would imagine, down the road, when this is up and running three or five years from now, that those costs are going to come down. I wonder, though, where you would imagine those costs coming down to.

Ms. Cooper, you're starting at $129. Do you have a sense of where those costs might go?

11:30 a.m.

Vice-President, Satellite Government Affairs, Space Exploration Technologies Corp.

Patricia Cooper

You're absolutely right. This is still a beta. I think we've been offering it for three weeks, so it certainly still has early adopter prices and service.

The user equipment, this phased array flat antenna that we build ourselves has content that's more advanced than most jets, so we have been driving that cost down. I think most comparable antennas on the public market have been offered with five digits, so we've made the first leaps of being able to get it into a household budget.

We expect the consumer kit to become a lot more affordable, not just from economies of scale as we ramp up to high-rate production levels, but also from ongoing design decisions that we think will drive the prices lower over time. We don't know where that is going to go. We do have our own internal targets, though.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

Mr. Goldberg, with competition being, on yours, pretty intense, for a layperson, sending these satellites into orbit and competing with other infrastructure or other companies that are sending the same infrastructure, is there the space to have multiple competitors in one geographic territory?

11:35 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Telesat

Daniel Goldberg

We all need to be very cognizant about where we're orbiting our satellites. We've been doing this for 50 years in geostationary orbit. It's something that we all ought to be conscious of, not only just the physical limitations of where these satellites go, but also making use of the scarce radio spectrum to make sure there's enough of it that we can all leverage to deliver the high-capacity services that we need to deliver.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

Nathaniel Erskine-Smith Liberal Beaches—East York, ON

As someone who does a Facebook live Q and A every Thursday at eight o'clock and has had to do it, when I visit my father-in-law in Camlachie, at a truck stop because Internet is not fast enough at his place, I look forward to this becoming a reality.

11:35 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Telesat

Daniel Goldberg

We're all working hard on it.

11:35 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Sherry Romanado

Thank you very much.

Mr. Lemire, you may go ahead. You have six minutes.