Industry Committee on Nov. 19th, 2020

[Éric Dagenais]

Thanks for the question.

As Mr. Kennedy said, affordability is a key part of our objectives at ISED in the telecom space. More specifically, with respect to UBF—and prior to that, CTI—there are a couple of things. When we fund infrastructure backbone projects with public dollars, we have an open-access policy so that competitors can have open access to the backbone.

Pricing is one of the criteria that we examine. We do ask Internet service providers to tell us what their different pricing packages will be prior to making a decision. If we get a number of different applications in a similar region, this is one of the criteria we look at.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

To be clear, it's not a part of the mandate or part of the contract. We help them to facilitate to build the system, but then do we have legislative control—through the minister or through Parliament, aside from a further regulatory approach—in the contracts themselves? After one or two years, or whatever it might be, are there any guarantees to ensure that the pricing is going to be affordable? Are we still in a negotiating position or subject to their market business plans for the service of those areas? Do we actually write that into the business plan?

If we don't, then I guess that's a vulnerability. If we do, how many years does that cover?

[Éric Dagenais]

I don't know if you want me to take that, Mr. Kennedy.

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, maybe you can turn to Éric on this, but there is.... For wireline Internet access, there are requirements. There are wholesale rates that are established by the CRTC.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

What I'm asking is very simple. When we do these projects and we write these contracts, do we put pricing in the actual contract, yes or no? If it's not there, that's fine. Then you leverage—like you're suggesting—the CRTC or another regulator, but—

[Simon Kennedy]

We obviously want to have projects that will be viable in the long term, but no, the pricing is not built into the contract. That's not a feature of the discussion.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay, thank you. That's just helpful because, as we roll this out across the country, I'm just wondering what the variables are among the different contracts.

I want to move on to the Black entrepreneurship program. Who is being consulted, and where? It sounded to me like they've just announced the program as an idea. That's what I took away from the minister, that they're consulting. They do have a target figure. I'd like to know, for example, what the interest rates are on low-interest loans.

When can we expect that? Who are they consulting? How do you get consulted on this? I represent an area of the country where the underground railroad was. We have a lot of Black culture, history and entrepreneurs here, historically. They're eager to get involved in this. We haven't really found out what's going on.

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, if the member will allow, one of my executives, Frances McRae, has been leading the discussions with the community and has been leading the work on this program. I might turn to her to provide more detail.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, that's fine.

[Simon Kennedy]

I'm getting a note saying that she's locked out for some reason.

I'm sorry.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's fine. It happens.

We can follow up on this. I'm really interested in knowing.... I hope there is diligent follow-up on this. For the record, there's a high degree of interest to get some more details, and this might help other committee members, too. We didn't have that chance before.

That's fine if we don't have the capabilities right now. I do want to know specifically how people get involved in the consultation, if it has already begun, and who's being consulted—

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, we can certainly write to the committee and provide that detail.

There is work going on right now, I can assure the committee.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, okay. At any rate, we'll leave it at that. Thank you.

I'll just return to the issue of the spectrum auction. I know it's been put off for a little bit.

Are we prepared to pull the trigger on that, so to speak, right away when the date comes up? I'm just wondering. I know my time is just about up, but will we be ready to meet the minister's new timetable?

[Simon Kennedy]

Yes, that is definitely the plan, to be ready.

Just very briefly, there has been a lot of work going into how we run an auction safely, particularly in a COVID environment. Just to give one example to the honourable member, there is usually an auction room and usually people are crowded in there. It's like being on the floor of a stock exchange. There are things like that that we have to recalibrate, and that work is already under way.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister. If you could provide that information through the clerk, that would be great. We'll make sure it's circulated to the committee.

With that, we will start our second round. We go to MP Dreeshen.

You have the floor for five minutes.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I know it would have been nice to have a couple of extra questions in for the minister.

I'd like to start with some of the trade issues that have been discussed. We still have a lot of non-tariff trade barrier concerns. Our durum grain going into Italy, based again on a non-tariff trade barrier concern...the tweet to Saudi Arabia, we still have some issues associated with that.

I am just wondering whether there are funds available for us to try to take care of some of these disputes, which continue to be causing issues in trade.

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, not to split hairs, but I am not the deputy responsible for the trade ministry.

I may be incorrect in that regard, but I believe Sara Wilshaw, the chief trade commissioner from Global Affairs, might be one of the witnesses here.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Sure.

I can move on to something, then, that perhaps is more in your line.

The minister, just a short time ago, spoke about all the money that Stats Canada has and the engagement. When I take a look at the main estimates here, I see StatsCan up by 27.1%, $114 million extra. I also see, in the same document, Atlantic Canada down by $42 million. I see Quebec down $24 million. I see Western Economic Diversification down $31 million.

It seems there has been a reallocation of funding, so I am just wondering if you can explain what the rationale would be to increase dramatically the StatsCan numbers while we see the different opportunity organizations losing funding.

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, I am going to turn to my chief financial officer. Typically, these numbers are not reflecting year-over-year reductions. It's typically the timing of when we receive money through the main estimates or the supplementary estimates. It's a technical issue.

I'll turn to Mr. McConnachie, if that's okay, to just explain the details.

[Douglas McConnachie, Assistant Deputy Minister and Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Management Sector, Department of Industry]

Thank you very much for the question, and thank you, Mr. Kennedy.

That's exactly the case. The main estimates don't reflect any of the funding that was appropriated to the regional development agencies, in particular, through the supplementary estimates (A) and (B). There were significant allocations that were made to the regional relief and recovery fund. As well, the RDAs were tasked to deliver a number of programs that are within the mandates of Minister Ng and Minister Monsef, notably the women entrepreneurship strategy and some other pieces.

Given the fact that there is quite a bit of complexity to the figures, I'd be happy to submit, through the clerk, a detailed accounting for how the authorities, to date, have significantly increased for all of the RDAs since the main estimates, if that would please the committee.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you.

I know that every time we're looking at main estimates, we see the differential as to when it's coming in. Of course, we haven't had a budget for a long time, and normally these things are tied into that type of economic discussion.

ISED has also requested $259 million for the innovation superclusters initiative. In 2018-19, the actual expenditures were $5.6 million. In 2019-20, $183 million was requested, but the actual expenditures haven't yet been published.

Again, as we try to find out where this money is going and what is happening to it.... We hear a lot about all this money being spent on all these other programs. Some of these others that we're concerned about.... If we look at the article that was in the paper just a short time ago, where the Minister of Innovation says that the superclusters' long-term economic impact and benefits won't be evident for a number of years, I think that becomes a concern.

Why are the expenditures lower than planned, and has there been any increase since March 6, 2020?

[Simon Kennedy]

Madam Chair, I can certainly speak to that.

The superclusters are designed to help nurture an ecosystem. Frankly, part of it is to build connections between organizations that might not necessarily have connected otherwise because the ecosystem might be weaker than would be needed for those organizations to come together.

For example, in the protein industry supercluster, we're trying to bring together organizations that actually, when they get together, can create really great value and build new businesses and do all kinds of exciting stuff, but because of the nature of the industries involved, they might not have bumped into each other on their own.

It's about cluster development. Countries all over the world, our peers, are doing this work. Building clusters takes time. We're actually now seeing that initial work pay off. I'm happy to come back to the committee with further details. It took a bit of time to get going, but it's really moving along now and there has been a real upswing in activity.

I'll come back to the committee, if that's okay.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, Mr. Kennedy.

We will now turn the floor over to MP Hutchings.

You have the floor for five minutes.