Industry Committee on Nov. 26th, 2020

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Scott, thank you for joining us. The presence of the the CRTC representatives is very important to us in the study we are conducting. I think you are part of the solution.

In 2016, the CRTC said that the Internet is an essential service. The CRTC is being asked to intervene to set wholesale rates to encourage healthy competition. That created a lot of reaction and discontent.

Why is the source of an essential service in private hands?

Wouldn't it be simpler for the CRTC or another public body to be responsible for wholesale service as proposed in the Yale report for mobile services?

[Ian Scott]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Lemire.

It's a very complex question, so I will continue in English.

Why is it in the hands of private providers? I suppose the starting point is because it always has been. That has been the industry structure. The role of the regulatory agency was to supervise and regulate private sector players in their provision, initially, of basic telecommunications service, and now broadband and wireless services as well.

To be sure, we have a modern and highly effective system. If you will, we are just the policemen; we are the regulator in this. It is not a focus on what is the best industry structure.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In that sense, Mr. Scott, if your power was not limited, what would be the best way to ensure that 100% of Quebeckers and Canadians have access to affordable Internet services?

[Ian Scott]

It's...

I will continue in English.

I'm sorry.

How will we reach it? We will reach it by continuing the projects and the approach that we have embarked upon. The Government of Quebec has been highly active. The federal government and the CRTC are committing funds. It's all with the intention of moving as quickly as possible to ensure that all Québécois and all Canadians have access to an appropriate standard of service.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

To pick up on what my colleague Mr. Cumming was saying earlier, we have the impression that everyone is full of good will and is doing their part: the departments in particular, as well as the Government of Quebec, which you have just named. However, the results in my region of Abitibi—Témiscamingue are very inconclusive.

Can you tell me if there is a body in charge of coordinating everything and providing an overall strategic vision?

[Ian Scott]

Yes, there is a common vision. The vision is clear, which is to bring an acceptable standard of service to all Canadians. In terms of coordination, I can speak only to the role of the CRTC. As I indicated, we work closely with government, as closely as we can given that we are quasi-judicial and operate at arm's length from government.

On technical matters and mapping, for example, in identifying areas that don't have service, we work closely together.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I am telling you that my concern is clearly the result, on the ground, in the houses, particularly in a region like mine. Let me continue.

In Telecom Regulatory Policy 2016-496, the CRTC proposes that Internet service providers, whose revenues reach a certain threshold determined by the CRTC, participate proportionately in the basic universal service objective by contributing to the CRTC's broadband fund to support the expansion of connectivity in underserved areas, which is under way.

Will the providers be identified by all of their activities, including all affiliate companies?

[Ian Scott]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

I'd like to ask my colleague to help me answer that question.

Ms. Doiron, would you help me, please?

[Renée Doiron, Director, Broadband and Networking Engineering, Canadian Radio-television and Telecommunications Commission]

Okay.

If I understand correctly, you're asking whether the affiliate companies of service providers whose revenue is over $2 million are included in that $2 million?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

For example, in Abitibi—Témiscamingue, Bell is a major player that delegates to subsidiaries, such as Cablevision or Télébec, that belong to it, but that are in fact able to give excuses. If we make a complaint to customer service, even to Cablevision or Télébec, Bell ends up responding. That has consequences.

In your overall vision, when you think of Bell, do you think of its subsidiaries?

[Renée Doiron]

I think the simple answer is yes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You think so. Okay.

In order to facilitate projects that deploy the Internet, don't you think it would be in everyone's interest for the CRTC to have explicit responsibility for managing databases on the operation and location of telecommunications networks?

Those databases would clarify the facilities and locations that would assist with interoperability and the deployment of new network facilities and fill connectivity gaps in rural and remote communities.

Can you explain to me what the basic universal service is and what the objectives are? Am I to understand that it is Internet access and connection speed? What will be the impact on the public?

[Ian Scott]

Ms. Doiron, do you want to continue?

[Renée Doiron]

I saw a yellow card.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Yes, the time is up.

Perhaps you can answer that question in a future round.

We'll now move to MP Masse.

You have the floor for six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I'd be open to and would encourage some time of mine being used to have that question answered, please.

[Ian Scott]

I'm sorry. I've lost the thread. Could you repeat the question? Was it just in terms of whether the CRTC should be the sole source?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes. It's following up on Monsieur Lemire's question, which I think you asked one of your assistants to answer.

[Ian Scott]

My colleague, yes.

I'm going to paraphrase, obviously—my apologies.

Whether it should all be in the hands of the CRTC, given it's our role, if that is the question you're looking to have a response to, I think it's a multi-faceted problem. I think a variety of approaches are desirable.

When we think, for example, about the CRTC's fund of $750 million, if you were talking about a major infrastructure project, a very significant fibre build in the far north, for example, this single project would consume our entire fund.

I think some large projects might be better suited to having the Infrastructure Bank address them. Some are more suited to the government's universal broadband fund.

Our fund is focusing on where no one is receiving the basic service objective. A simple example is that if there's one person in the 25-square-kilometre hexagon, then it isn't eligible for our fund, but it is eligible for the broadband fund of ISED.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I think that's a very helpful answer. What I have seen over the years is program after program announced, and some being used, some not. You're the last stop. How long do we wait, and how long do you evaluate whether anybody will move on those areas before your fund will then be engaged? I think that's part of the challenge we have here—figuring out the pecking order, so to speak, of when an area might lose out on some private sector investment, some quasi...or maybe other government sector, like municipal or provincial investment to connect, and then you, or having no service. Do you have a model for this?

[Ian Scott]

I think the model that exists is directionally right. I don't know how to qualify that.

We focus on the most needy areas, if you will. We fill the gap.

Larger programs can focus on any number of things. I don't mean to repeat myself, but if you use the example of a megaproject, it might require funding from multiple provinces as well as from numerous departments of the federal government. I think you need different types of approaches to address a very large, complex problem.

I'm not sure that answers your question.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

It does. It's quite helpful. This is part of our challenge, we literally have a dog's breakfast rolling out across Canada. As we try to sort this out, even affordability becomes a challenge, too, because of the types of technologies involved.

When we're looking at the CRTC's current supports, how many files do you still have to have to make a decision on for this sector, whether it be regulatory, or affordability, or programs for protection, and then also decisions for laying out...? Do you even have a guess? I know you may not be able to provide that, but how many decisions do you have to make in this file?

[Ian Scott]

Are you talking specifically about the broadband fund, or are you talking about all the various matters?

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'm talking about all the various matters.

[Ian Scott]

I have a weekly meeting with my direct report in relation to telecom. We have a two-page document in which go through the status report of the major files. I don't have it in front of me.

As a quick sampling, in addition to having almost 600 applications that we have to go through for broadband, we're in the midst of the wireless proceeding. As we've already discussed, we're also in the midst of a review on rates for third party Internet access. We recently launched a proceeding to look at the regulatory environment in the north, that of NorthwesTel. We have a proceeding under way to look at other factors that might slow the deployment of wireless and broadband service, to look at access to utility poles. It goes on and on. I don't want to use up your time, but we have many files in front of us.