Industry Committee on Nov. 26th, 2020

[Ian Scott]

I think, with respect, that you may be conflating some different files, so let me just explain quickly. On the review and vary applications, we received a number of them both from what we used to call “telephone companies” and “cable operators”. Then we open it up to comments from intervenors, the competitors typically, who then file their arguments. We have a complete record in the sense that there are no more submissions coming in on that, and we are in the course of examining it and will render a decision.

There's also a related proceeding in which we have a continuing process. It's called the “disaggregated access proceeding”. There has been some public commentary and media coverage about an area where specific information was requested, and certain parties don't believe that cable operators provided the necessary information. That may be what you're referring to.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

I was referring to the productivity factor area of dispute. When the Federal Court of Appeal was walking through its analysis, the CRTC said “it is reasonable to expect that they have detailed company-specific equipment prices and capacities for traffic-driven equipment that they acquire on an annual basis”, and that the companies had not provided the company-specific information.

[Ian Scott]

Sorry, I understand your question better. Pardon me for using up some of your time.

That was the court looking at our reasoning in the decision, and they upheld it.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

So have the companies provided the information that had initially been requested?

[Ian Scott]

The review and vary applications are not the same as what was in the original decision. They are arguing or addressing different issues and those same issues.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

When it comes to low-cost, data-only plans, in 2018 the CRTC identified a gap in the wireless market for lower-cost data-only plans. Two years later, the lowest-cost plan I can find for one gigabyte is $28 through Virgin Mobile. Do you view that cost as low enough?

[Ian Scott]

If you want, I can go search for some metrics on what the current rates are; but again, I don't—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Well, instead of doing that, I'll ask some specific questions, then.

Does the CRTC have an analysis of what basic data amount would be required if an individual were using it for basic browsing and VoIP services?

[Ian Scott]

There are lots of views on that. That was one of the issues that was certainly discussed in the wireless proceeding. A variety of groups—those arguing for particular targeted services and other stakeholders—have defined what they believe is a basic service, but there isn't a defined basic service by the commission, no.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Right. Ought there not to be at some point? I mean, when you talk about a gap in the wireless market for lower costs, they don't have any plans. Unless you know what that basic service provision ought to be, how do you determine ultimately what should be made available?

[Ian Scott]

The competitive market determines what products are available. We're trying to ensure that the pricing for that service continues to go down as it has been. The gap—

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

On that point, because I'm out of time, I want to get to that cost point.

Among these carriers, the best plan I saw was $50 for 10 gigabytes from Freedom Mobile, but others were in the range of $30 for one gigabyte. If, say, they were required to provide two or three gigabytes of data, what is the additional cost to the carriers of providing that? Are they at some capacity that they can't provide more? What is the additional cost to them if they were to say that poor Canadians who can't afford basic Internet service, basic mobile services, were to get three gigabytes instead of one gigabyte?

[Ian Scott]

Retail wireless rates are not based, in a regulatory sense, on cost. We don't rate regulate wireless rates, so I can't speak to what the delta would be....

Sorry, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

My apologies.

[Nathaniel Erskine-Smith, Liberal, Beaches—East York, ON]

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

We will now go to

Mr. Lemire.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Databases clarify who operates which facilities and where, help facilitate operations more generally, and assist in the development of new network facilities. In particular, they could help fill gaps in connectivity in rural and remote areas.

To facilitate Internet development projects, don't you think it would be in everyone's best interest for the CRTC to have an explicit responsibility to manage databases on the operation and location of telecommunications networks?

[Ian Scott]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Lemire.

You may know that we addressed this question, at least in part, in a submission to the expert panel that reported on last year. The issue of support structures is critical. The question of jurisdiction about them is complex, and frankly not something that the commission can decide. There are some complex constitutional issues involved. There are municipal rights involved. There isn't a simple answer.

Fundamentally, if you are asking if it's a problem that there are divided jurisdictions, it's a problem in the sense that you need multiple approvals and it takes long and it's complicated. It does slow down or is a barrier to deployment. We do have an open process that is looking at that issue.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Can you explain to me what a basic universal service is and what the objectives are?

Am I to understand that it's simply about Internet access and connection speed?

[Ian Scott]

That's generally it.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would like to come back to my question about your remarks.

How can we ensure that the CRTC can promote a little more competition?

One of the issues in remote regions like mine, Abiti—Témiscamingue, is that it is impossible to have competitors.

How could you encourage more competitors?

[Ian Scott]

If I may, I'll answer your question in English, Mr. Lemire.

Generally speaking, the way we ensure or promote competition in areas where there is only one or a smaller number of providers is to allow resale, to allow access to third parties to then provide service using their facility.

I'm sorry, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you so much.

Our next round of questions goes to MP Masse.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to make sure my question is not taken out of context, because I think the regulator is critical for Canadians. When we've looked at the models that have been presented by the government over the years, the end result is that we have amongst the highest cost per gigabyte in the world. Is that not an indication that the regulation we have right now has not been sufficient in protecting consumers?

[Ian Scott]

Can I just ask quickly for a clarification? Are you talking now about wireless service?