Industry Committee on Nov. 26th, 2020

[Geoff White]

We can catch the shareholder's attention through penalties, which the commission has as a remedy.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

I would like to next go to OpenMedia.

Madam Knight, you talked about the fact during COVID-19, urban areas have had service that is 10 times faster than rural service. Aside from the fact that demand is now higher with everybody working from home and kids studying at home, and there is a need for more bandwidth and more data, to what would you attribute the fact that urban areas were getting 10 times faster speed than rural areas?

[Erin Knight]

Historically we have seen communities in rural Canada underserved overall. It's just not a place where big telecom has historically put its interests, because the business case is usually not there. We saw the investment happening in urban and suburban communities because there was no push in these other programs like the universal broadband fund during this time, which was supposed to help connect these communities.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Do I understand that it is easier for the big telcos that are in the urban areas to open the valve and get much higher speed, whereas the smaller providers that are in the rural areas cannot open up the valve and get as much speed because they are dependent on the large telcos? Am I reading that right?

[Erin Knight]

Laura, it seemed as though you wanted to jump in.

[Laura Tribe]

Yes, you are reading that correctly. I think when we're looking at rural Canada, users are already maxed out. They are getting the highest speeds available to them and have been the entire time, whereas in urban centres it's been much easier to call in and increase their plans, to make the switch from cable to fibre. That's an option that is just not available with rural bandwidth.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I have 30 seconds and I want to go back to Madam Knight.

What actions can the government take? You seem to think it's because of government inaction. I want to understand what actions the government can take.

[Erin Knight]

Overall, we're hearing that this piecemeal approach to connecting all of Canada is not going to be effective. We need a national approach to connecting everyone in Canada whereby they know when they will be connected and what service they will get.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Our next question goes to Monsieur Lemire.

Mr. Lemire, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Thank you for your rigour and for respecting the turn of each political party to speak. This is particularly appreciated under the circumstances.

I have another question for Mr. Stein and Mr. White.

You're among the most interesting, if not the most value-added, witnesses we have heard since I've been on the Standing Committee on Industry, Science and Technology.

Do you believe that a wired connection is the best solution for giving 100% of Quebeckers and Canadians access to high-speed Internet?

Or do you think that the wired network should be combined with satellite areas, such as Telesat and SpaceX, who appeared before the committee last week?

The second option seems to be the preferred option supported by the government and its strategy.

[Matt Stein]

Connecting 100% of Canadians will take all the technologies that we have available to us, but in the end, terrestrial access is going to provide lower-latency/higher-quality access.

So, yes, satellites will absolutely be an important part of the strategy, but we need to put everything behind this. We need to use all of the technologies available.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Stein.

My next question is for the OpenMedia representatives.

In your opinion, is it fair that the wholesale market is in the hands of private companies?

During your visit last May, you seemed to say that the Internet should be nationalized. Today, you talk more about competition as the best way to lower prices.

Should Internet connectivity be in the hands of the state or should it be managed by a public-private partnership?

[Erin Knight]

I think at this point nothing is off the table when it comes to improving affordability in Canada. At this point, connecting everyone to affordable Internet relies a lot on competition. I think nothing is totally off the table.

Laura, if there's more you want to add to that, feel free.

[Laura Tribe]

I think if we're looking at options like structural separation, which was brought up earlier, we are very supportive of trying to ensure that competing business interests don't interfere with good quality or service. That's an option.

I think if we're looking at something like nationalizing, that's a conversation we're willing to have, but we're also looking at some of the ways to maybe try to save the existing system and deploy services as quickly as possible. While we are happy to entertain those conversations, we recognize that those things are not going to fix things overnight either.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

In conclusion, are you satisfied with the CRTC's work in enabling more competition?

[Laura Tribe]

I'm sorry, my connection cut out for a second. Can you repeat the last part of your question?

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Are you satisfied with the CRTC's work in enabling more competition?

[Laura Tribe]

I think there's a lot of room for more support for competition from the CRTC. We haven't seen the results on things like MVNOs, on wireless, or the support for smaller providers that we would like to make sure that there is a sufficiently competitive marketplace.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much.

Our last round of questions goes to MP Masse.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I want to move back to the CNIB with regard to not only the complications inherent to an individual's running their own wireless and wired network at home, but also to.... What has been the status of applications for support on devices and so forth?

I've noticed that there have been several government initiatives to assist small businesses, medium-sized business and some large business with investments, but there seems to be a void at times of including applications for persons with disabilities.

I wanted to note that and give you an opportunity to talk about that cost and if we're accidentally baking in some barriers to some of the tech supports we could be doing just by leaving them out as part of the conditions of terms of some of the loans, grants and programs that companies are enjoying.

[John M. Rafferty]

Obviously, I think it's been unprecedented over the last eight months with everyone's workplaces going virtual and our schools going virtual. Not only that, but Canadians who are blind or partially sighted moving to touchless environments, creating new technologies that are inaccessible in their very nature, has also layered on additional stresses.

I'm glad to be here. I know the focus of people's questions has been very much on the other two witnesses, and understandably so. I do want to make sure that everyone remembers the more than 6 million Canadians who do not get supported the same way in how they participate in the world of work and how they contribute to our economy, and there is no reason why they shouldn't. Inherent barriers of access and affordability are growing the divide between the haves and have-nots from a data perspective, and I think that's something that has to end. I'm glad this committee is looking at it with a level of vigour.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you. That would go for low-vision people as well; I know that's a forgotten group.

Thank you very much.

I see the card, Madam Chair.

Thank you again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Sherry Romanado]

Thank you very much, and with that, I'd like to thank the witnesses for being here today, for your patience and your excellent testimony and for answering a lot of the questions that we have.

With that, I will call this meeting adjourned.