Industry Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[Guy Ouimet]

I won't answer that question directly, but I will say that the industry associated with the fight against climate change using clean technologies isn't a threat to the economy or to oil. Oil is abundant and will be around for a long time too. Oil production will decline over a long period. There are all kinds of ways, such as carbon capture, to clean up the oil industry and contain it where that's essential. It will continue to exist.

It's like when we started digitizing accounting and stopped doing it on paper: it didn't destroy jobs. The economy is shifting. Different technologies will come to light after the industry in general has been decarbonized, and everyone will benefit. The people in the oil industry will survive and those who evolve will go elsewhere.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much.

That's all the time I had.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Lemire.

For our final questioner, we have Mr. Masse.

The floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll go back to Mr. Kukucha.

You heard testimony earlier this evening about board members voting for their interest in regard to their own companies. Is this the highest model of how it operates? We just heard testimony that people with a conflict of interest voted in favour of projects they were tied to.

Is this a regular practice? Do you want to correct the record? Would you expect this to take place on other boards?

[Stephen Kukucha]

Absolutely not.

It certainly wasn't a regular practice. I know the RCGT report pointed out some documenting issues. I think some of the minutes and documents may not accurately reflect.... I can't speak about all of them with specificity.

I know for a fact that, when directors had a conflict, the process George discussed is exactly what happens. You declared the conflict before you received materials, and you left the room. Perhaps, in the instance of a COVID payment—the second one; I can't speak on the first one—some people, including me, had an interest, but there was no list of companies that came forward to us.

To this date, to be honest, I didn't even know the companies that I [Inaudible—Editor] conflict received funds.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

We just heard one of our panellists, Mr. Ouimet, suggest that he was in the room and voted for money going to a company he had a financial interest in.

[Stephen Kukucha]

The proper procedure, and the procedure that was followed, was this: Directors, either physically or virtually, left the room.

That's my recollection of what always happened at meetings.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'll leave it there.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Masse.

That's all the time we had.

I would like to thank the witnesses, Messrs. Kukucha, Ouimet and Lafond, as well as the interpreters, the support staff, our clerk, the analysts and everyone here present.

Go forth in peace.

The meeting is adjourned.