Industry Committee on Dec. 5th, 2023

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes. There were those things happening. Listen, I come from an era when a lot of decisions about other people were made on golf courses. I'm just trying to get a picture here. I mean, you must be a little bit concerned about the.... Here I'd appreciate it, and it would be helpful, if you tabled the whistle-blower's information.

Obviously, the minister has suspended things right now. These things don't happen in a vacuum. What do you think was really missed in this process? I mean, right now a professional body has been engaged to try to allow whistle-blowers to come forward. Some are still concerned. You've been there for a while. If everything is so good, as Mr. Ouimet says, why are we here?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Please give a brief answer.

[Stephen Kukucha]

All I can speak for is that at the meetings we have, there's vigorous discussion. Oftentimes, the terms of the funding get changed in those meetings, but we operate as a consensus organization when it goes to a vote. The board members are very much engaged and very much focused on the cause.

Not being on the People & Culture committee, obviously, if there were issues, some of that did not filter up to the board or to me. But this is one of the better-run organizations I've ever been a part of. It's incredibly professional and very results-driven. I can't say much more than that, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

I'll now yield the floor to MP Barrett for five minutes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Ouimet, how long have you been on the board for SDTC?

[Guy Ouimet]

I've been sitting on it since November 8, 2018.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You were appointed by order in council?

[Guy Ouimet]

Yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

How many companies that you have had stakes in have received taxpayer money from SDTC?

[Guy Ouimet]

One.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Did you vote to give your own companies taxpayer money?

[Guy Ouimet]

First of all, I don't have any companies. You don't own a business when you hold 1% of its shares.

We discussed the situation—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Let me offer you precision, then, sir. How many companies that you have an interest in have received money from SDTC?

[Guy Ouimet]

I'll repeat my answer: one company.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Did you vote to give these companies that you have an interest in taxpayer money?

[Guy Ouimet]

If you understood the logistical aspect of the COVID‑19-related payment, you'll understand that the answer is yes because, according to the legal opinion, the conflict of interest was managed.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

I do understand that. Let me lay this out. One of the companies you have an interest in is called Lithion. Is that correct?

[Guy Ouimet]

Yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You answered “yes”. I'm not sure if that was audible.

We heard about how rigorously the conflict of interest rules have been followed at the company. I want to go over that with you.

In front of me I have meeting minutes from the Monday, March 23, 2020, meeting where a COVID payment for Lithion of $192,100 was paid.

[Guy Ouimet]

Yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

You've agreed “yes”.

On Tuesday, March 9, 2021, that company you have an interest in received $201,705.

[Guy Ouimet]

Yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

So there was one payment of $192,000 and one of $201,000. You voted to award that to both of those companies.

Now, in attendance at both of those meetings, your name is listed. Were you in attendance at those meetings, sir? Just give a yes or no.

[Guy Ouimet]

Yes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Perfect.

I see that noted on the minutes are “regrets”. You're not included in regrets.

When I turn the document over, it says that the decision was unanimous on that item. That was on the 2020 item. The same was true for 2021. It was unanimous. There's no indication that there was a recusal made.

In further items, it goes on to actually detail when someone leaves the room. It talks about how the CEO left for an in camera item. Of course, we can infer from this that you didn't leave the room for the decision on the COVID payments. Is that correct?