The role of the CEO is to work very closely with the governance chair. From 2015 to 2019, when Gary Lunn was the governance chair, we did that very actively. That time was an easier time, because, as was stated, we didn't have as many direct conflicts as we had after Annette Verschuren's appointment.
He and I would work together to approach board members to talk to them about perceived and real conflicts, and because of his gravitas as a former minister of the Crown, that often carried the day, and, actually, always carried the day. Once he was gone, and once we had a very different operating environment related to a direct conflict with Annette Verschuren's appointment, at that point all the CEO can do and the vice-president investments can do is recommend.
In most cases, the director would ask that the adjudication go to the committee or the committee chair. In some cases, if we felt strongly that it needed to be adjudicated before the committee, if it was a direct conflict, we would engage the committee chair. In other cases, where it was a perceived conflict, it would get discussed directly at committee.