Industry Committee on March 18th, 2024

[Mirko Bibic]

The point is we have competitive pricing along the lines of what Mr. Entwistle said. We've gotten better at communicating the impacts with customers.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay, you don't know. I'm going to try—

[Mirko Bibic]

Importantly, in order to try—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Chair, I have limited time and he doesn't know the answer, so I'm going to try to end this in a positive way.

[Mirko Bibic]

No, I would like.... This is about affordability for the customer and how we treat customers—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Bibic, I've asked you a specific question and you can't even answer what your pricing is for your phones for these types of situations.

I just asked what it costs and you're just reflecting something that Mr. Entwistle.... Maybe Mr. Entwistle could answer for you on behalf of Bell. I don't know, but this is—

[Mirko Bibic]

We have the same general pricing. I'm happy to get back to you with the specifics, but the point is that we try to serve every customer appropriately. If there is an issue, the customer can call us and we'll take care of the customer. We don't want to lose the customer. We want to treat—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

That's not the question I asked.

I'm going to try to leave this, Mr. Chair, on a positive note.

I'm hoping that maybe the industry can actually take away from this the fact we have many border communities...and others who actually have to turn their phone on for emergency services. Perhaps there's a better way that doesn't actually put customers in such a vulnerable position at the end of the day.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

Mr. Vis, the floor is yours.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you to all of our witnesses here today. I have a lot of great questions, but there is something else I'd like to discuss, and that is the motion I tabled to all committees received on Friday.

I cannot ignore the fact that this government is planning to hike the carbon tax another 23% come April 1. I cannot ignore the fact that the Liberals still owe businesses more than $2.5 billion in carbon pricing revenues from the first five years of the program and refuse to say when the money will flow. I cannot ignore the fact that this government is cutting the financial relief it promised to small businesses in a time of high inflation, interest rates and labour shortages.

I cannot ignore the fact that, according to the superintendent of bankruptcy, in January 2024, businesses saw a year-over-year increase in business insolvencies of 48.8%. Specifically, mining and oil and gas extraction saw a 92.9% increase in insolvencies, and professional, scientific and technical services saw an increase of 70.6%.

I cannot ignore the fact that, according to Statistics Canada, November 2023 was the fifth straight month in which fewer businesses opened than closed in Canada. I cannot ignore the fact that, in 2023, Mexico overtook Canada as the United States' largest trading partner. Let that sink in.

I cannot ignore the fact that the Minister of Small Business stated in Sudbury last week that she would bring the concerns of small businesses about the carbon tax back here to Ottawa, and I cannot ignore the fact that the minister stated that her government was lowering taxes for small businesses at the status of women committee when, in fact, we are seeing the exact opposite happening on April 1.

Therefore, I move that:

Given that the federal government has been collecting carbon tax revenue from small and medium size businesses since 2019; that despite repeated promises to return more than $2.5 billion in promised carbon tax revenues to small businesses the government has failed to do so; that many small and medium size businesses in various sectors of the Canadian economy are going insolvent; and despite the fact that seven provincial premiers, including Liberal Premier Furey, and more than 70% of Canadians oppose another 23% carbon tax increase on April 1st; the committee call for six meetings to be held immediately and invite the following witnesses:

Minister of Environment and Climate Change,

Minister of Finance,

Minister of Small Business,

Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry,

Various small and medium size businesses and industry representatives

and that the committee hear from witnesses the extent of the damage caused by carbon tax on the economy, and from government officials timeline to return money owed to small businesses and to freeze the carbon tax at its current levels and to report back to the House.

I move this motion today, Mr. Chair, because I have spent a lot of time on talking over the last number of weeks, and this is the number one thing that small businesses are talking to me about. All of us around this table are hearing the same thing from small businesses. They can't take another tax increase.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

Now, the committee cannot ignore the fact that you've moved your motion, and it therefore needs to be debated. We need to decide what to do with it, and considering that we only have five minutes left, I'll let the witnesses go, because we're going to enter the debate on the terms of the motion as moved by Mr. Vis.

Thank you very much for your appearance today at committee, and thanks for your testimonies.

Colleagues, there is a motion on the floor. I'm opening it up for comments and debate.

Mr. Turnbull, you have the floor.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Well, first of all, I'm not sure that I've seen the motion in writing. It would be really helpful to have a copy of it. If the clerk has that, I would like to read it.

Obviously, ideologically, the Conservatives don't believe in climate change. They want to cut the rebates for Canadians. That seems to be something they're pushing as a false narrative constantly in denying the fact that eight out of 10 families get more money back than they pay, but that's beside the point.

I think we've all agreed to an agenda in our subcommittee meeting. The report was tabled in this committee as a whole. We all approved that unanimously, and we have a number of priorities that are set out in that agenda that do not include this particular study as the top priority. I think our agreement has been to follow through on that plan. We've seen the Conservatives time and time again try to insert additional studies into that agenda, which is fine—it's their prerogative to do so—but it seems like there's so many competing priorities they have that they can't pick which one they want to study first.

My sense is that we have to finish our work on Bill C-27, which is the top priority. I think all of us recognize the importance of that bill. We know that generally government legislation is supposed to take priority, although of course committees are masters of their own domain, but that has been our agreement. I think that quite rightfully we owe it to Canadians to update the privacy legislation, which is 20 years old, and to have a framework for regulating artificial intelligence. I think that that should be the top priority.

If, when that is complete, Conservatives want to change some of the other priorities that they've set out and prioritize this particular motion, then perhaps we can have that debate at that time, but for now I don't see how we can fit this in, and it doesn't make sense that this would somehow supervene the other priorities that have already been agreed to and identified with a set committee schedule that I think has to stay in place. We have witnesses lined up and committee meetings scheduled. We're all planning for those, and we have to get to clause-by-clause on Bill C-27.

Those are my perspectives. I'm sure other committee members will share theirs.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I want to move to a vote in just a minute, if that's okay, Mr. Chair, but I'll just point out that today I'm wearing the tartan tie of Abbotsford. My riding of Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, despite whatever the Liberals say, has been impacted more by climate change than any other riding in the history of Canada, and we still have not been made whole, despite repeated promises from this government, which said that a carbon tax increase will stop wildfires and floods. That is not the case. That is not scientifically valid, that narrative coming from the Liberal Party.

We're pushing for this small business study because businesses are suffering big time across Canada, and we owe it to the job creators in this country to start looking clearly at what they're doing. There's no better committee than the industry committee to do that. This is an emergency. I would like to go to a vote.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Vis. I appreciate your sentiment; however, if there is a motion and any member wants to speak to it, we can't move to vote on the motion. It needs to be debated.

I recognize Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd rather have this dealt with at our side committee with regard to business and organizing what meetings there are. My binder is full of all kinds of motions for studies. We could add another three days of committee work if the House resources were available, I guess, and we still wouldn't get through them all.

I appreciate the tabling of the motion but at the same time won't support it, because we're going to basically.... Even today, we're missing out on the final hours of the CEOs, basically the most important issue that Canadians are facing right now.

I won't be supporting the motion. I think that maybe we should look at this going to committee business so that we can organize our schedule appropriately.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Okay. I see that there are no more comments.

We'll put the motion to a vote, Madam Clerk.

(Motion negatived: nays 7; yeas 4 [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Thank you, everyone. This concludes our two‑hour meeting right on time. We'll see each other again on Wednesday for the meeting on Stellantis.

The meeting is adjourned.