Industry Committee on April 17th, 2024

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You may have the right intentions, too. You can get back to me on that, because I am just interested. We should be able to pore through the agreements the government has given. I just want to make sure that practice doesn't happen again.

[Jérôme Pécresse]

[Inaudible—Editor] our ability to source from Quebec, to use local suppliers.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Right.

[Jérôme Pécresse]

I don't think the agreement prevents us from using our IP for Rio Tinto in places other than Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean. This technology, if successful, will have global development. The reality is, Saguenay represents 60% of our aluminum production today. It's the most competitive place, so that's where we want to start it.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay.

What I want to know for certain, though, is whether those clauses are in the actual allocations from the federal government and the provincial government. I think that's a reasonable thing.

Thank you.

[Jérôme Pécresse]

Also, we're in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean because we have access to competitive hydro power due to our whole operation, which would be very difficult to delocalize.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, I know. I'm not comparing apples to apples here, for sure, but I think you understand the reason. It builds better public confidence when—

[Jérôme Pécresse]

I get it. We'll get back to you on that.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Masse.

Mr. Martel, go ahead.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to ask a few questions and then yield the rest of my time to Mr. Généreux.

Mr. Pécresse, given the way primary aluminum production is mainly done in North America—what Rio Tinto produces is in great demand—would aluminum produced using ELYSIS technology be available to Canadian SMEs, small and medium-sized enterprises?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

I don't see why it wouldn't be.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Does the consortium have a plan to ensure that metal produced using ELYSIS is available to Canadian SMEs?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

We don't have any specific plan to do that, but we sell our aluminum in Canada, and we'll sell aluminum produced using ELYSIS in Canada as well.

Once again, your question kind of puts me on the spot because it raises two more questions: how much will it cost us to produce aluminum using ELYSIS technology, and how much will we sell it for? These are still very uncertain factors for us.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

I'm going to ask you a final question and then yield the floor to my colleague.

Will the anodes be manufactured here at home?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

We haven't made any announcements about that either, but it would be logical to produce anodes in Quebec, as carbon anodes currently are.

It would be easier from the standpoint of logistics and security of supply, and it would also help allay certain concerns that have previously been raised. Once again, no decision has been made, but that would be entirely logical.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Pécresse.

I now yield my time to my colleague.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Pécresse, as Mr. Simard was questioning you, it seemed to me he wanted to make you say that Saguenay-Lac-Saint-Jean was having its cake and eating it too, as well as everything else on the table. That's probably fair enough since we Quebec MPs want to help our regions grow and benefit as much as possible from any spillover effects.

My colleague mentioned electricity generation. If I'm not mistaken, you own assets that you operate to produce green aluminum using your own electricity.

Will aluminum production using ELYSIS technology require more electricity? My colleague seemed to be making a connection between the required quantity of electricity and the number of new jobs.

Is there really a connection between those two factors?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

You're right about the first factor, Mr. Généreux, because 90% of the electricity we now use to produce aluminum in Saguenay comes from our own hydroelectric power station.

Just imagine the situation 10 years from now, with all the uncertainties that scenario entails. When we consider our ambitions for aluminum production growth and its limits, including aluminum produced using ELYSIS technology, and when we consider how we want to decarbonize other elements in the value chain, including the alumina refinery in Vaudreuil, we have to admit that we'll need to electrify some things that aren't electrified today. We will very likely need more electricity in Saguenay―Lac-Saint-Jean than what our power stations can generate today.

Consequently, we will start by modernizing those stations. Speaking of which, our future investment program will include major funding to upgrade power stations in Saguenay―Lac-Saint-Jean. That's another indication of our commitment to the region.

We'll also have to consider how we can meet those needs, including perhaps by turning to new sources of renewable energy. This is a topic that we've begun to address in Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much, Mr. Généreux. I'm sorry, but—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Pardon me, Mr. Chair, but you were generous with speaking time earlier.

Mr. Pécresse, have you assessed the impact that your presence and investments in the community will have on Saguenay―Lac-Saint-Jean?

[Jérôme Pécresse]

Rio Tinto has invested $5.5 billion in Canada since 2018. We invest approximately $650 million in Quebec every year.

In Canada, in 2023, Rio Tinto spent $2.2 billion on aluminum production in Quebec, and those investments are slowly growing. So those amounts are really significant.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I congratulate and thank you, Mr. Pécresse.

I would also like to welcome you to Quebec.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Mr. Généreux, you don't want me to start counting all the times when I was very generous with speaking time. I think you'd owe me.

Mr. Van Bynen, go ahead.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You talked about gaining market share as a result of having the green aluminum. What's your market share currently? Who are your biggest competitors, and to what extent?