Industry Committee on May 1st, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

I want to welcome all of you to meeting number 121 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the Standing Orders.

I'll recognize you, MP Masse, in due time, but there are some things I need to highlight first.

Before we begin, I would like to remind all members and other in-room meeting participants of the following important preventative measures.

To prevent disruptive—and potentially harmful—audio feedback incidents that can cause injuries, all participants must keep their earpiece away from their microphone at all times.

As indicated in the communiqué from the Speaker to all members on Monday, April 29, the following measures have been taken to help prevent audio feedback incidents.

All earpieces have been replaced by a model which greatly reduces the probability of audio feedback. The new earpieces are black in colour, whereas the former earpieces were grey. Please only use the approved black earpieces.

By default, all unused earpieces will be unplugged at the start of a meeting.

When you are not using your earpiece, please place it face down on the middle of the sticker on the table for this purpose, as shown on the image.

Please consult the cards on the table for guidelines to prevent audio feedback incidents.

The room layout has also been adjusted to reduce acoustic shock.

Keep that in mind, colleagues. It's very important. I'll be monitoring this more closely than ever, given what happened.

To make it simple, you need to keep your earpiece as far away as possible from the microphone, when your microphone is on, or away from that of your neighbours. Any microphone that's on, you need to keep the earpiece as far away as possible.

Pursuant to the order of reference on Monday, April 24, 2023, the committee is resuming consideration of Bill C‑27, An Act to Enact the Consumer Privacy Protection Act, the Personal Information and Data Protection Tribunal Act and the Artificial Intelligence and Data Act and to make consequential and related amendments to other Acts.

With that, I’d like to welcome back our witnesses and thank you all for being here this evening.

We welcome Mr. Mark Schaan, senior assistant deputy minister, strategy and innovation policy sector; Mr. Samir Chhabra, director general, marketplace framework policy branch; as well as Ms. Runa Angus, senior director, strategy and innovation policy sector.

At the last meeting on Bill C‑27, we ended with the representative for the Bloc Québécois. Before giving him the floor, allow me to give the floor to another member.

I'd like to recognize MP Masse, who had a point of order.

MP Masse, the floor is yours.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My comment is with regard to the new room layout, which I do support. Obviously, this has been an audio challenge for our interpreters during this process, but I want to point out two things that are of a concern.

The door is right behind me right now, so that is going to be picked up on my microphone, and it's going to be hard for me to hear.

Second to that, which is most important, and which is not an issue today, I'm not afforded a spot for my staff, which is different from the accommodations made for every other party here. There has to be some accommodation for my staff either to be at the table here or to be in some other configuration. That is a point of privilege that I will raise. I will have a staff on a regular basis. I don't for today, so it has no bearing, but it is something I want to raise now.

I do appreciate what we're trying to do here because it is significant for our interpretation staff. Again, the noise is pretty bad in some of these halls, so I'm worried it might get picked up as well.

Those were the two points I wanted to make as we go through this process.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, MP Masse.

I understand that the changes needed to be brought forward in a rapid manner, but there are still some discussions about how we will move forward on a longer time frame.

Mr. Vis.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

I'll second that point for Mr. Masse.

I noticed it right away. If I were sitting where he is, I wouldn't have privacy. If he has his notes there, every staff member could come in and basically read what is on his paper. It's not fair to him. I will support him in that motion.

I pointed it out to him just a second ago. It's an awkward position. We're going to have to move the table around differently to make this work.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Vis.

If I'm not mistaken, at our last meeting, we were still on CPC-7. A subamendment was presented by MP Savard-Tremblay, which has been distributed in writing to committee members.

(On clause 2)

We are still on the subamendment moved by the member Mr. Savard‑Tremblay.

Mr. Garon, the subamendment was moved by a member of the Bloc Québécois. I therefore give you the floor.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

I got a little mixed up; I’m looking for the subamendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Actually, I’m not sure that Mr. Savard‑Tremblay’s subamendment was sent in writing. I thought that was the case, but it mostly repeated the text from amendment NDP‑6, which starts with “sensitive personal information,” and added it as paragraph j) to amendment CPC‑7.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

My colleague did a brilliant job replacing me during the last meeting.

The intent of paragraph j) was to add “any other information violating the fundamental right to privacy.”

Is that where we are at, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Yes, that’s it.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Very well.

Essentially, this deals with two things. The first is that when we insert a list…

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

I'm sorry to interrupt—

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

—but I believe we're on NDP-6.

Your colleague who joined us had subamended CPC-7 and added what you just stated, Mr. Garon. I think we're already past that if I'm not mistaken.

Are we on CPC-7 or NDP-6?

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

We're on CPC-7, as I understood it.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Okay. Maybe I'm wrong, then. I apologize.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

We are CPC-7.

Mr. Savard-Tremblay withdrew the initial subamendment that he had proposed, but at the end of the last meeting, he wanted to submit another subamendment, which would have taken text from NDP-6. It's important to remember that NDP-6 has not been moved, so it's not public.

I'm trying to navigate these waters. What he suggested at the end of the last meeting, if I'm not mistaken, was to add one item after (i) on CPC-7, so we would have a point (j), which would add the last portion of NDP-6, which you have.

Am I correct?

Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Okay, I recall now that that's what happened. It makes sense to me.

Could we just have it restated before we start to debate this? There was a subamendment that was defeated, and then there was another one introduced, so we're now on—

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

The first subamendment by Mr. Savard-Tremblay he withdrew with unanimous consent.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Excuse me, I misspoke. He withdrew it and then he introduced another one.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Exactly.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Could we have that one read out loud so that we're all very clear on what we're debating? Maybe Mr. Garon has that.

My apologies. Part of it was just recollecting where we left off.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

That’s no problem at all for me, because I also found it very helpful.

Essentially, I propose adding paragraph j) to amendment CPC‑7, which includes a list of elements defining sensitive personal information.

This paragraph, which I will explain afterwards, reads as follows: “any other information violating the fundamental right to privacy.”

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

No, Mr. Garon, what you just submitted was withdrawn.

For everyone’s benefit, at the end of the last meeting, Mr. Savard‑Tremblay proposed changing amendment CPC‑7 by adding paragraph j), as follows:

j) personal information in respect of which, due to the context of its use or disclosure, an individual has a high reasonable expectation of privacy.

That’s the content of the subamendment moved by Mr. Savard‑Tremblay, who is currently absent. We must now debate it.

Mr. Masse, you have the floor.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

No, I know we're trying to.... It's just kind of weird that we have the Bloc moving half of my next amendment, so I'm wondering about procedure here.

I'm not opposed to it. We really want to make this the best bill, but are we...?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Imitation is the best form of flattery, Mr. Masse.