Industry Committee on May 27th, 2024

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We had a deal—the end of May. They were approached—

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Perkins, if you want the floor, you'll have to seek it. I'll recognize you so that you can speak.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

You can speak next, Mr. Perkins, if you disagree with me. You're more than welcome to disagree with me. We've had lots of disagreements in the past, and I'm sure we'll continue to disagree on things. Occasionally, we agree on something. It's always a nice, serendipitous moment when Conservatives and Liberals agree. Let's see if we can get there on this.

I don't agree with a summons as being necessary at this point. I think it's premature. Perhaps we need to consider adjourning debate on this today and coming back to it.

I'll leave it to other committee members to weigh in. We haven't heard from Mr. Masse to see where he stands on this. I would be very interested in any comments he has to provide.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you.

Mr. Masse.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll be honest with you. At this point I just want to get it over with. It's a distraction.

I'll agree with the motion to get this done and move on, because there is lots of good work that needs to happen. I could see this going in circles continuously, and I don't want to revisit this in another motion in another few weeks.

We did agree to have a meeting, and it's taken this long. I understand where the parliamentary secretary is coming from, and I understand the clerk and the chair have done their due diligence, but I don't see how we can get this completed and done, which we said we'd do. I don't want to go into that or have a special session in the summer related to this, and that's where I see this going. I don't want to have more parliamentary resources and summer meetings just because we can't get an answer on things.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

If I may, I'd like to ask Mr. Masse for clarification.

Are you agreeing to summon these witnesses, and is that an appropriate step you think we need to take at this point? I'm just asking for clarification, because I think that's what I'm hearing you say, whereas I think that's a bit premature, but those are my sentiments on it.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Yes, I don't know what else to say, other than we're in this situation because of decisions other people have made.

I don't like the idea of summoning people. That's not something I prefer to do. At the same time, I have a bigger concern with regard to the time we have at this committee, the resources of the House and respect for our process, that supersede that. I don't know what else to do other than one of two options.

We can just get this done. They made their own bed, to some degree, either by not responding or responding in a way that doesn't really accommodate the committee.

Second of all, I also know this is going to come back again, and I don't really feel like spending parliamentary resources on special committee meetings or having summer sessions to accommodate. I haven't heard a good reason from the people coming back, saying they even propose another date they would be here.

I don't know what else to do. I don't like it, but there's lots I don't like.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Mr. Masse, trust me, there is nothing I want less than having to come back to Ottawa for a meeting on SDTC this summer to chair in person, so I appreciate your concerns.

That said, colleagues, I have a bit of a proposition. I'm looking at Mr. Perkins, and I'm coming back to this proposition.

It's up to the committee to decide, but I too think a summons should really be the last resort.

I understand your frustration, Mr. Perkins. I share your frustration in many ways. With the clerk, we've been trying to invite these witnesses for some time now, but now that we've debated it and your motion states that we can go to June 7, I would propose that maybe we ask the clerk to look for any additional resources that we can find next week. We offer a variety of time slots to the witnesses for next week, and whatever works with the witnesses.... They'll be on notice that there is a summons being debated here at INDU and that it's most likely going to be voted on on Wednesday if they don't co-operate and find some time in their schedule to appear before committee next week.

That would be my middle-of-the-road proposition, so that we get back to this first item of business on Wednesday when we meet, and that gives one last opportunity for the witnesses to co-operate.

Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I appreciate the middle of the road, but I think we've been more than generous, and I would prefer to do a vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

You want to put it to a vote, Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

It's so we can get on to Bill C-27.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

For sure, but this was not public until today.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Chair, the motion still includes a witness who's already agreed to come, so I think that's problematic. I can't summons and vote on a motion....

I say we adjourn debate on this today and revisit it later in the week when we have more information, so I'll move to adjourn debate on this.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

This is a dilatory motion, so I'll ask the clerk for a roll call.

(Motion negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

This will bring us back to the motion at hand.

Are there any other comments on the motion?

Mr. Turnbull.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

This motion needs to be amended before I can vote on it. I really don't feel comfortable voting to summon Andrew Noseworthy if he has already agreed to come.

Who is going to amend this motion to remove him? I'm not going to allow a vote to—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Amend it.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

Yes, I guess I can amend it myself.

I'll move to amend this by striking (b).

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I think I didn't read his name. I said that he doesn't need to appear when I read it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Yes, when you read it, that's true, Mr. Perkins, but the text that's before us still includes it. I understand that Mr. Turnbull is moving a subamendment to remove Andrew Noseworthy.

[Ryan Turnbull, Liberal, Whitby, ON]

It would actually be an amendment.

Just strike (b).

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Is it the will of the committee to adopt the amendment?

(Amendment agreed to)

Do I have any other speakers on the motion as amended by Mr. Turnbull?

Seeing that there are none, I'll put it to a vote.

(Motion as amended agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5)

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, colleagues.

That brings us back to the agenda.

(On clause 2)

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

We were discussing Bill C‑27, specifically CPC‑9. Mr. Perkins had the floor.

As I mentioned, no one else seems to want to debate amendment CPC‑9. If anyone wants to add their name to the list to speak, they can just let me know.

Mr. Perkins, the floor is yours.