Industry Committee on March 25th, 2022

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

I don't know whether that is provided for, but I can say, however, that it is essential.

In my presentation, I mentioned that it wasn't necessary to have a Ph.D. to contribute to this field; far from it. We need specialists in cryogenics and machining. Without them, we will not have quantum computers.

In fact, the Institut quantique employs a number of people from La Pocatière. As I said, there is expertise in Sherbrooke. Sherbrooke's Innovation Zone in Quantum Sciences and Technological Applications will also be working with the Cégep de Sherbrooke on this.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

As I understand it, the government is investing $50 million a year through the NRC, which then has an obligation to put the strategy in place.

Is the NRC or the government itself doing that? Can you give me some information on this point?

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

As I understand it, the NRC already offers programs, such as the Discovery Grants Program, the Alliance grants, and the CREATE program, and funds will be devoted to quantum computing through those programs.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Okay, I understand. So those funds will be added to the funds invested by the Government of Quebec.

Mr. Sanders, do you know if Alberta is doing the same?

Is Ontario, wherever you are, doing the same, Mr. Lütkenhaus?

[Dr. Norbert Lütkenhaus]

There are initiatives for sure in the NSERC-CREATE training aspects, which is part of the national quantum initiative. That is actually training at the graduate level.

We at the Institute for Quantum Computing have been actually doing training on all levels. We start off with high school students. We have training elements for undergraduate and graduate students. We have trained 200 graduate students.

We have, as well, training like CryptoWorks 21, which is actually a form of this NSERC-CREATE program that we have been doing together, for example, with Calgary, where we do training between disciplines. That is for the important area of cybersecurity and quantum-safe cryptography, where we have classical cryptography—cryptography not working with quantum mechanics at all—and basically cryptographers who work with quantum mechanical means. We bring them together so that both of these communities can come together and know about their respective advantages.

It's very important to make this cross-connection. It's not only about quantum physicists having fun. It is really about bringing the different backgrounds together as well as teaching people outside about what it is that quantum can and cannot do, and how it can be utilized.

These training efforts are very important, and the NSERC-CREATE initiative is one of the tools in this part of the quantum strategy as well.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you for your answer, Mr. Lütkenhaus.

Mr. Blais, you talked about competition earlier. You have partners everywhere in the world. Mr. Sanders referred to New Delhi and New York. You collaborate with partners, but you also have competitors. Who are they?

On a scale of one to ten, where is Canada at present in the global quantum computing industry?

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

In fact, there are two different aspects: the academic sector and the industry sector. I want to be sure I am understanding your question correctly. You are talking about the industry, more specifically, is that right?

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Yes.

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

For the industry, as Professor Lütkenhaus explained well, quantum computing brought about an initial revolution: microelectronics as we already know it. We are now in the second revolution.

We could say that Canada came out a loser, in a way, in the first revolution. The Apples, IBMs and Intels of this world are not here in Canada; they are south of the border. As a result, the big players that are investing massively in quantum technology today are also located south of the border: Google, IBM, Intel and Amazon.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

IBM is in Bromont too, is that right?

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

IBM has a plant in Bromont. It is the only one left in the world. In fact, an IBM quantum computer is going to be installed in Bromont this year.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Right.

Regarding...

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Généreux. I'm sorry, but your speaking time is up. That will be for another time.

Mr. Filmore, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thanks very much, Mr. Chair; and tremendous thanks to this panel. It's clear that much of the leadership in quantum computing in Canada resides with you and we're very grateful to have you join us today.

I would love nothing more than to crack into an exciting discussion about the details of the work you do in your labs and how quantum computing works and will work. On that note, I just want to say thanks to the committee's analysts. I think it was Sarah and Scott who provided the very helpful working paper that made the concepts of quantum computing accessible to committee members, so thank you to the analysts. However, the committee unfortunately today is more focused on governance and creating the conditions for you to be able to do your work and to get Canada to where it needs to be, rather than on the details.

I want to come back to this question. It has been raised a few times, but it needs to be raised again, about the talent pipeline. The global context of cybersecurity and international security is changing and becoming more complex by the day, and Canada needs to be competitive in these fora.

This is your opportunity to be very specific to the committee about what this national quantum strategy has to do to support the talent pipeline. Does the funding that has already been mentioned cover the cost of recruitment and training, marketing and other things? Is more money needed? Exactly how would you see a strategy like this, a national strategy, being effective in creating a talent pipeline?

I would open that question up to anybody to answer.

[Dr. Barry C. Sanders]

Maybe I could jump in first. I'll just mention that certainly in Calgary, similar to what's happening in Ontario and Quebec, we're looking for ways to be able to bring in the companies and have the talent. As we've heard, we create talent, the talent leaves Canada and that's a problem.

Where the money and the governance can really help is in co-developing the two. In Alberta, a chief part of the funding we got in the recent Alberta government budget helps us to effectively subsidize talent development so we're able to create these kinds of programs that are addressing what industry needs and these are full cost-recovery degrees. We set up professional degrees and then we go to companies and say we are developing the talent. There will be talent. We tell them that if they set up a base in Calgary, we are putting through talent, and it's effectively zero risk because it's taxpayer dollars that are enabling us to be able to launch this in a managed-risk kind of way.

If we don't do that kind of thing, we create the talent and the establishment of the companies comes later. As my colleagues have said, the students will go out and create the companies, but it's too late; we lose the talent. On the other hand, if we try to bring in companies and we don't have the talent, that's a problem. I see this as a problem, but it's a solvable problem.

I've had discussions with Mitacs, which is an excellent organization, for internships, and so on, but this is a point I keep raising. We need to find a way where we're establishing deep tech talent, we have the dollars to be able to do so, we're simultaneously bringing in companies and we're marrying the two together so that a company setting up at a place is able to have the talent step into it.

The nutshell of what I said is that we need to make talent development and company creation simultaneous. That's a gap in the way we're currently managing our quantum strategy.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you.

Are there other comments?

[Dr. Norbert Lütkenhaus]

One thing we really need when we talk about talent is having enough people interested in going into the field. That is something I think we all understand in Canada. We need to play together to really bring more people in. That's why we have this funnel really going from high schools to bring people into STEM and to bring people into our field. This is only one of the aspects.

Now if you think about talent to work as well as to drive the quantum industry, there really are two parts to it. It is one thing to have sufficient funding to hire enough graduate students so that we bring them to that level over here and they can then go into work in the quantum industry. That's really the one thing, and I think that exists as the core part of the quantum initiative as well, to make sure that we can do the research and, in that way, train the academic workforce for companies.

Then another thing is indeed something that we have to figure out. It's something that Barry mentioned about the need to have the professional development. That means people who are not in the main quantum part but would need to know how to work with it. We need to figure out how exactly to make this work. This is not the core academic part, but we need to figure out what instruments we need to actually help support that. I don't have a clear answer to that one, but it's clearly one of the things that we think we need to take care of.

[Andy Fillmore, Liberal, Halifax, NS]

Thank you.

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

Mr. Chair, could I make one last comment?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Yes, but make it very quick, Mr. Blais.

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

Yes, it will be brief.

In addition to the national quantum strategy, Canada could expedite visas granted to students and people who want to train and work in the industry. It is difficult to get visas to the United States at the moment, so Canada could take advantage of that to expedite this here and make Canada even more attractive for these people.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Blais.

I will turn the floor over to Mr. Lemire for two minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for your flexibility, Mr. Blais. I am going to continue with you.

Should we create a body to develop standards for the industry, which would enable more than one company to produce the same product and take part in the international market?

It would be somewhat like the USB standards for connectors.

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

That is part of the discussions, although it is still early to be developing those standards, not for quantum computers, but rather for quantum communication and quantum cryptography. We have to start thinking about it. The NRC can take part in those discussions.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I would like you to talk to us about intellectual property. How would you like intellectual property to be treated in Canada? Is the law sufficiently robust or up to date to deal with this issue in the field of quantum computing?