Industry Committee on March 25th, 2022

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

Thank you for the question.

A lot has been said today about quantum computers, but, as I mentioned, it is important to understand that quantum information has more than one component. There are several aspects to quantum information. Mr. Lütkenhaus talked about one of them: quantum detectors, which measure the properties of their environment faster and more efficiently than current detectors. There are detectors everywhere around us, including in our smart phones, in our cars, and in the medical imaging equipment used in hospitals. Quantum computing means we can have detectors that are faster and provide better data.

At present, SBQuantum, a company in Sherbrooke, is designing quantum detectors for the mining industry. The first tests are being done now, in collaboration with the NRC. These detectors could be placed on drones and could detect variations in the magnetic field that indicate the presence of deposits. These technologies are much more advanced than quantum computers, in fact.

Quantum detectors could also provide better data, faster, in the medical imaging field. At present, big pieces of equipment are used to do medical imaging, because patients have to go inside the machines. We could imagine much smaller structures, such as helmets equipped with quantum detectors, that could be used to do imaging must faster and more efficiently. Once again, Canadian companies are developing these technologies, and it is even more advanced than quantum computers.

[Viviane LaPointe, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you very much, Viviane, for sharing your time.

Dr. Sanders, Dr. Blais and Dr. Lütkenhaus, thank you so much for coming. If you could see my brain activity, you would see fireworks. I already feel smarter from listening to your presentations.

I just want to follow along what my colleague was asking. The theory of quantum computing is quite fascinating, but I want to hear from you that you are confident that with our current technology the application of the theory is actually possible and we can realize these applications.

Speaking in the context of hearing about the government's investment of $360 million over seven years and then looking at other countries that are investing a lot more, if we have to pick a lane—a certain part of this technology to gain a unique advantage over our competitors in the future—we had better be sure that the lane is not soon going to a very short dead end.

I want to hear your thoughts on this, starting with Dr. Blais.

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

Thank you. That's a very good question.

At present, there is every indication that we will succeed in creating a quantum computer. All our scientific and technological advances are leading us to that goal. Although it is a hard road and there are still a lot of advances to be made, we are not seeing any major obstacles. In recent years, we have gone from small devices to online devices that we can really make work, but there are still challenges to be overcome and work to be done.

Part of the national quantum strategy funds NSERC, the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council of Canada, which enables Canadian researchers to explore all sorts of approaches leading to quantum computers, to help them achieve that goal. I talked about strategic choices earlier. Canada could choose a few possible architectures and invest in those avenues. It is possible for Canada to make that choice without it being at the expense of broader exploration, which is needed, thanks to the investments already announced for NSERC.

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

Thank you very much.

Is there any answer from your colleagues?

[Dr. Norbert Lütkenhaus]

I am happy to offer some thoughts on that. Yes, as Dr. Blais said, we are confident that quantum computing will come, and there are studies as well from the Global Risk Institute that tell you a little bit about what we in the community are thinking and what the timelines are.

It's very important to understand that the benefit from quantum computing/quantum information is not only the quantum computer itself. Already today, the quantum industry's acting on all aspects. If you have a quantum computer, you need to know what to use it for. That is some of what I said about the medium-term benefit, as well as our going and building up the small-scale or noisy quantum computers—or you wonder what they can be doing. There is already today the interaction between industry and academia to figure out what we can use those things for. As well, that is already a small part the industry. It's not only the quantum computer itself.

That is in addition to the spinoffs of technology for centres and so on—

[Han Dong, Liberal, Don Valley North, ON]

I'm sorry. On that point, which is a very good one, I previously asked government officials about semiconductors. Semiconductor manufacturing capacity, to me.... Since we have this new technology to get to autonomous vehicles and all that future much more quickly, we need semiconductors to embody this technology.

Is that a field that you think that Canada should move toward to build our own independent semiconductor manufacturing capacity?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Answer very briefly, please.

[Dr. Norbert Lütkenhaus]

Okay.

I'll provide very brief input on that. One thing is that the technology on which quantum computers will be based is not necessarily the same technology on which today's conventional computers are based. When you talk about today's semiconductor industry, that's not necessarily what we need for the quantum computer.

That is my short input.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you very much.

We'll now move to MP Lemire for six minutes.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Professor Blais, I won't hide the fact that when we began our efforts to inform ourselves about quantum computing, I was a bit outside my comfort zone. I was directed, with great admiration, to the work of the Université de Sherbrooke and what you are doing. Based on your presentation today, you get high praise from me.

I would like to take the opportunity to let you tell us about the present situation. First, you said that the current directions did not necessarily imply a strategic choice, except with respect to national defence and the demands of military defence, as we understood during the first hour of the meeting. I would like you to talk to us about what the government's priorities should be, particularly regarding funding and research, both applied and fundamental.

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

Thank you for the comment and question.

I won't go into strategic choices again, since I have already said enough about that, but there are several points that I could make. One issue I would like to go back to is talent, which is essential. There is the technology, which we have talked about, but there have to be people to create it. The number of people we are training is not very high, as compared to what would be needed. In addition, those few people are immediately hired by companies at the international level. I have students who are approached by multiple companies just a year after starting their doctorates, asking what they will be doing once they get their diplomas. We are in a funny situation.

We have to keep these people. To do that, we have to create an ecosystem of enterprises. I am talking about the budding talent we create here and enterprises we attract. To create new talent, I don't believe the best approach is to ask professors to create an enterprise. If a professor creates a company, they create one and it's over. If the professor leaves to devote themself to their enterprise, then we lose an important channel for students.

Encouraging our students to start their own companies is really a winning formula, to my mind. There are probably some components missing for doing that. In Canada, investors are more timid when it comes to investing in initiatives that call for a long-term investment. The first years, the period when students go from university to a company the size of D-Wave, which we talked about, are critical. I think the national strategy has a role to play in that regard.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I see the urgency of creating an ecosystem based on collaboration, particularly with academia, but also with SMEs. The government can play a leadership role in this by investing major amounts so that Canada does not lose its competitive advantage.

We can talk about the urgency of establishing a collaboration with the academic community. That has an influence on numerous fields, including artificial intelligence, leading-edge robotics, communication networks, blockchain, and industry 4.0. Unfortunately, we often hear that these companies are sometimes working in a vacuum. That is also the case for the government.

What would you propose to make the collaborations and dialogues more productive?

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

At present, the companies working in the quantum field in Canada do participate in worthwhile collaboration with the academic community. That is not the case for all companies, but some of the budding talent companies that have just started up simply have no choice but to work closely with academics. The research they are doing comes out of what is being done in the universities and is really pretty fundamental.

In all honesty, I don't think working in a vacuum is a problem in the quantum field, although it does happen, I agree, in other fields.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

How can we guarantee growth in the quantum industry?

I often note that the government's strategies amount to putting its money on a horse that is going to give it a good reputation or a good press conference, rather than staying open to a wider group of SMEs and actors who could also become winning horses, not necessarily in the short term, but in the long term.

[Dr. Alexandre Blais]

I think the innovation zone in quantum sciences and technological applications that has just been announced in Sherbrooke is a good example. It is based on research excellence and local expertise, quantum Sherbrooke in this case, and on investments. These will help students start up their companies and will also encourage companies from outside to come to the Sherbrooke region. The idea is that it will become a much more natural route for our students. Of course, things were extremely difficult for the first student who created an innovative company in Sherbrooke, but they were a little less difficult for the second.

In this ecosystem, we need an assembly of talent to move from quantum science to quantum technology. As well, we have to generate a lot of attraction at the international level. People have to have the feeling that Sherbrooke, in this case, and Canada, more generally, offer them a multitude of possibilities. People have to think that if it should happen not to work out—because young buds are sometimes born and then die—at least three other opportunities are offered to them, because a multitude of other things are going on in that region.

These investments are therefore crucial.

[Sébastien Lemire, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

I think the chair is going to tell me my time is up. I sometimes overdo things. So I am going to stop here.

Thank you, Mr. Blais.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Yes, that's right. Thank you for managing your time, Mr. Lemire.

Mr. Masse, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our guests.

Mr. Sanders, I noted and I think it might have been you, and I'm hoping it is because I'd like to learn more about this, who mentioned the quantum computing hackathon that was done. I'd like you to expand a little bit on that. I thought that was a rather interesting initiative. I know it's been going on for awhile, but it seems to be really growing. It's for social good and is what it is, so that people understand that.

Was that you who was a guest speaker? I know you weren't involved in organizing it, but maybe you were a guest speaker. Could you maybe elaborate a little bit on that because I see these as exciting opportunities to continue to push cybersecurity and also the good that quantum computing can do.

[Dr. Barry C. Sanders]

Actually, that will be next week. After this meeting I'm heading to the airport and flying off to Abu Dhabi. There, I'm working with New York University's Abu Dhabi campus, and the idea is to do a hackathon. It's called “Hackathon for Social Good in the Arab World”. I'm going as the quantum computing expert for it.

The hackathon brings in software engineers, computer scientists, people who want to build apps or APIs, just things that can go on your phone. The idea is to do what I think a lot of people at this meeting are caring about: to look at how is quantum computing going to fit into practical applications.

I help a lot in these things. Next week I'm a guest speaker, but also a mentor and enabler. The idea is that we want to take what quantum computing can do today.... And I just want to be a little bit clear here: Quantum computing is a long-term effort, but there's an area called “quantum-inspired computing”, which is where we say, what would a quantum computer be good at, and if we simulate a quantum computer today, could the benefits of the future come around today? Basically, thinking about what a quantum computer will do in the future inspires us to invent new algorithms today, like in optimization areas.

Part of what we're doing next week in Abu Dhabi is that I'll be looking at what the inspiration of quantum computing is doing to drive new algorithms and how to incorporate those new algorithms into apps. Then I'll bring in some of my students from Calgary, and we're doing things like basically flight management. We're working on problems like developing apps so that countries can minimize global temperature rise, and we call that the “objective function”. We're trying to find ways to say, given takeoffs and landings, altitudes, how do we minimize the global temperature rise, and we're doing it all with quantum-inspired computing.

Thanks for asking. That's what I love, and it just turns out that Abu Dhabi is the first place launching a hackathon of that type, so I'm helping them.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thanks for that.

Sorry, I didn't notice the date when it was happening because I just read two articles on it and won't be anywhere near there.

What I found interesting, though, is there is even discussion on stuff like grocery store apps and things of that nature. It's interesting to me because I've been in dialogue with some of the grocery stores because they do have some apps now, and there are some ethical issues with regard to price differences, and it also depends on whether it's a store or it could be the supplier. There are a whole bunch of ethical issues still in there.

For this conference, though, is it mostly young people who will be involved in it? You mentioned you're a mentor. Is there a Canadian component to it, or are you just going there basically on your own? I'm just curious how we fit in this, because I think these things are really exciting because they do provide an opportunity for people to see the practical element of this.

[Dr. Barry C. Sanders]

There's no official connection between Canada and what's going on in Abu Dhabi. It is a New York University Abu Dhabi campus thing. I'm the lead mentor and pushing it forward, so by my association Canada has a strong presence in this activity.

This is really breaking new ground. As you said, there are grocery apps and all these kinds of things, and we really want to find ways to make quantum computing matter now, and engage the software community. A lot of this is really physicist and computer-scientist driven, but we really want to engage the software community better.

I look at this activity in Abu Dhabi as an experiment on my part. I'm going there and I'll learn a lot. I'm hoping with what I experience there and what successes I see there, I can bring back to Canada and we can start developing a lot more focus on the software side and using quantum inspiration to solve today's problems.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Maybe potentially the next time we have you back as a witness it could be related to Canada's having hosted something of this nature, if that's not too ambitious. It would certainly seem that these types of efforts are really worthwhile.

I think we'll follow up as well. That's where I see there being a great role for the universities and the Government of Canada to help sponsor and reverse the potential loss of talent as opposed to our getting a chance to have people come to our community. I have the University of Windsor and St. Clair College in my riding. When we host those events internationally, they're of huge significance to attract future star candidates.

Thanks, Mr. Chair. Those are my questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Masse.

I am now going to turn the floor over to Mr. Généreux for five minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Sanders, rather than having an app installed on my phone to vote in the House of Commons, I would like the opportunity to be transported there by my phone and vote there by hologram.

I'm joking, obviously.

I would like to thank the witnesses for being here. What you are teaching us is pretty impressive. In all sincerity, at the start of our study, I felt a bit like Mr. Lemire: I wondered what kind of questions I was going to be able to ask you. As it turns out, I have a million questions to ask you.

Mr. Blais, you talked a lot about training earlier. You said that the Government of Quebec had invested major amounts in addition to the amounts paid by the Government of Canada through the national quantum strategy that is being developed.

When it comes to training, you know that there are the Centres collégiaux de transfert de technologie, the CCTTs, in Quebec. Where I live in La Pocatière, Novika Solutions and OPTECH, which you are certainly familiar with, are part of the CCTTs. I have visited OPTECH's website and I learned that the company was also working on quantum technology.

This is about technical training. Do you know whether the national quantum strategy provides for funds that will be dedicated to technical training?