Industry Committee on Oct. 7th, 2024

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Why did you take $50 million in tax dollars from the federal Liberal government for something that you should be doing anyway?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

We're outcomes focused. There's a focus on driving new patents, taking Canadians, employing them, giving them those high-paying, high-wage, high-technology jobs and an opportunity to commercialize that.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

The fees you charge to business are a big issue that some folks here talked about because those fees potentially get passed on to consumers at a higher cost, with things being higher priced. At the time that you took $50 million in Canadian tax dollars from the Liberal government, was your company's lobbying posture against changes or a cap on the amount in fees that you could charge to businesses?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

I'm afraid I don't understand the question.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Were you lobbying, at the time, to not change the status quo on what you could charge to businesses?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

That's not my area. Unfortunately, I don't know.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

You don't know. Okay.

Do you think it's possible that the $50 million you took from the federal government, and the $500 million for something you should, ostensibly, be doing anyway, was to keep the status quo or keep the federal Liberal government from changing the status quo on what you could charge to businesses for the use of your services?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

Our focus is on investment and growth, and the cybersecurity centre of excellence in Vancouver allows us to continue to invest in the infrastructure of the network.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Don't you think it's a little sus or weird to ask for $50 million of Canadian tax dollars for something you should be doing anyway?

[Balinder Ahluwalia]

Look, we invested $500 million. It's something that we're very proud of. We're driving—

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

That's out of $21 billion. Thank you.

I'm going to go over to Mr. Hannah for, perhaps, a little different line of questioning. People with high debt-to-income ratios—put a different way, people who pay a significant amount for their mortgage right now—may use their credit cards more frequently for things like groceries or gas.

Would that be a fair characterization?

[Darren Hannah]

Possibly.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Possibly...? I know there are a lot of people in my community who do. I hear about it in my office.

The change between a 25-year or a 30-year amortization for a mortgage might sound good because it might lower your monthly interest payments, but I did a little research, and on the benchmark price of a home in March 2024 and the total mortgage, the interest paid.... Over the life of a mortgage, the difference that somebody would pay in interest, from a 25-year mortgage to a 30-year mortgage, is roughly about $122,000. Does that sound, ballpark, about right?

[Darren Hannah]

Perhaps.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Would you say, then, that a 30-year mortgage doesn't actually make life more affordable for Canadians and just makes your banks a little richer?

[Darren Hannah]

What I'd say is that it gives them an additional option.

In that case, what has to happen—what's important—is that the banker and the customer meeting to talk about options and determine what works best for the customer. Ultimately, this is a relationship business. The customer you're talking to has at least two products with the bank and probably more. They want to make sure that customer is well served and being provided with good value. They want to make sure that customer is able to continue to pay.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Sure.

Look, I know there's risk in providing Canadians with mortgages. Would you say that increasing the 30-year mortgage right now makes the product a little riskier for you and the consumer?

[Darren Hannah]

What I'd say is that it's another option. The arrears rate on mortgages is very low—0.2%. That's a very strong market.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

However, they're increasing.

[Darren Hannah]

They're increasing from a pandemic low. That was a historic low. They're reverting back to the norm, but they're still incredibly low.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Would you characterize mortgages as affordable in Canada right now?

[Darren Hannah]

I would characterize them as being a competitive market.

Frankly, let me separate out mortgages and housing. Housing can be quite expensive, absolutely. I live in the GTA. I know what expensive housing looks like. Mortgages are a very competitive market. Rates went up as interest rates went up. They are coming down, which is absolutely true.

There are options out there. We want customers to shop around, particularly in that product class.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Would you say, then, that the best way to make housing more affordable for Canadians is to not increase the length of the mortgage, but rather to increase supply so prices go down?

[Darren Hannah]

We have been firm in saying that this is a supply-driven issue. That is absolutely true.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Thank you.