Industry Committee on Oct. 24th, 2024

[Alexandre Lampron]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Garon.

As you said, that is kind of why, every year, for several years, we have hammered home the need to limit credit card transaction fees to 0.5%. We believe that any higher percentage makes no sense and we want to see a rate of 0.5%. Australia, which is comparable in size to Canada, has had a rate of 0.5% for a number of years. As we said earlier, lower-income people should obviously not be paying for higher-income people who accumulate points with their credit cards. The important thing for us is the 0.5%.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

What has been shown is that these agreements do not apply to anyone, except maybe a hairdresser working out of their home. There are no agreements.

Mr. Brownlee, I am going to do the same exercise with you. You represent convenience store owners. Assume that the average customer—which is not the case, I am being very generous with Visa and Mastercard—buys a bag of chips for $8.00, a can of Coke for $5.00, and a 6/49 lottery ticket for $2.00. By my calculation, to be eligible for the agreement with Mastercard, the merchant must not take in over $480 per day. To be eligible for the agreement with Visa, the merchant must not make more than $625 in sales a day. In a convenience store open 18 hours a day year-round, if more than one person buys a can of Coke every 30 minutes, no merchant is eligible.

Explain how these agreements serve any purpose for your members.

[Jeff Brownlee]

They aren't. We don't qualify.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

When I say we are in a science-fiction movie, that is kind of what I mean. On the one hand, you have the Liberals asking merchants why they have not lowered prices for consumers. It is because costs have not gone down. On the other hand, you have the Conservatives asking Stripe why the company has not passed the cost reduction on to consumers. It is because costs have not gone down. Costs have absolutely not gone down.

Mr. Brownlee, can you confirm that the percentage of your member merchants who are eligible for these agreements, which have been imposed by the multinational corporations, is approximately 0%?

[Jeff Brownlee]

Yes, exactly.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Mr. Lampron, what percentage of your member retailers are eligible for these agreements? Would it be in the neighbourhood of 0%?

[Alexandre Lampron]

I don't have the answer to that question, unfortunately, but it is definitely going to affect a large number of businesses at present. As I said earlier, the Conseil québécois du commerce de détail represents almost 45,000 businesses in Quebec. That actually is a huge number of businesses that could benefit from this measure, but definitely there are a lot of people—

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

It is certainly not a majority.

[Alexandre Lampron]

No.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Right.

I have one last question for you, Mr. Lampron. We have retailers in our region, businesses that Quebeckers do business with every day, that have been on the front page: grocery stores and supermarkets, whose model is generally based on high volume but low profit margins.

When access to lower interchange fees is dependent on sales volume under these vaunted agreements with Mastercard and Visa, which are not agreements even though they get called that, it seems to me that businesses that have high sales volumes but low profit margins are completely wiped off the map. It seems to me that grocery stores are completely left out of these agreements, the fact being that they are businesses where Quebeckers and Canadians go every day to buy food, where prices are high, and where significant inflation has been observed in recent years.

Do you not think this is a problem?

[Alexandre Lampron]

That is why we talk about unfairness in the current system. Right now, it makes no sense.

I reiterate: The reason why we are asking for credit card fees to be capped at 0.5% is precisely so it is fair for all merchants, not just small businesses as it is under the agreement announced in 2023, which came into effect only a few days ago. That is why we are asking that it apply generally to all retailers and all businesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Garon.

Mr. Masse, the floor is yours.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Peters, you said, I think, that you have 100 employees in Canada. Is that correct?

[Brian Peters]

The last time I checked, we had over 100 employees, yes.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay.

Where are they located?

[Brian Peters]

The last time I looked, they were located across, I believe, seven provinces. We had an office there previously, but we just opened a new, larger office in Toronto a few weeks ago.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay.

What are your revenues in Canada?

[Brian Peters]

That is, unfortunately, sensitive commercial information that I'm not able to share.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

You can't share the revenue.

What would be the average salary remuneration per employee, then?

[Brian Peters]

We're a technology company, and we're always looking for the best talent. Many of the job openings we have in Canada right now are for engineering roles, and we're competing around the world for the best talent. Those are very high-paying jobs.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

What is the specific reason you can't share your revenue earned in Canada? I'd like to know specifically if that is a board directive, if that is your personal opinion or if that is from the CEO. Where does that directive to not share that information come from?

We know your percentages, but we're trying to figure out exactly what value Stripe and other finance companies bring to the Canadian economy, and we can't do that without getting an idea of your profit margin and the value of it.

Also, when you're talking about 100 employees across Canada, I'd like to have a comparison. I come from an area with tool-and-die manufacturing and so forth. We know all those things and we know what people do.

Can you tell me, for the 100 employees, what specific job categories you have? Also, again, getting back to the directive of why you can't share that information, where does it come from?

[Brian Peters]

There are a few questions there.

In terms of revenue growth, we exist primarily because of the success of the businesses in Canada that we support. Our growth is growth that goes along with their growth.

In terms of our ability to comment on information about our financials, that is a company-wide policy. It is set by management. We are a private—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Okay, so it's up to management. Provide us the names and the addresses of the management people we can actually put that question to.

[Brian Peters]

I think they would tell you the exact same information. This is—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

Who are they? Give us their names and addresses so we can actually ask them.