Evidence of meeting #141 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was stripe.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Peters, my questions again will be for you.
I have served on the board of an international retailer. I've served on the board of a financial institution. I've served on the executive teams in those large organizations as well, so I know the role of a board, and the role of a board is not advisory. The role of the board is governance and the final decision-making process. It is not advisory. They are involved in the big decisions and in approving or rejecting the big decisions of management on things.
Therefore, it would be shocking to me that the Stripe board, which includes Mark Carney, the former governor of the Bank of Canada and the economic adviser to the Prime Minister of Canada, would make a decision about not complying with the Government of Canada without a board discussion. Are you telling me that you're not aware that that has happened?
Director, Public Policy, Stripe
We are complying with every obligation we have. We're talking about an expectation in this case. We met that expectation by passing through the reduction. The decisions in this regard were management-level decisions. The board was not involved.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
When you're on a board, the compensation is pay, shares, options, director share units and a whole bunch of share-based equity things. In fact, it's a requirement. MP Rempel Garner or MP Patzer asked you this, are you aware of what any of those compensation packages are?
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
Perhaps it would be helpful, since you're based in Washington and you're dealing with that lobbying too, for you and for this committee to know what it is, so I ask you to table the board compensation packages, by director, with this committee, please.
I will move on to my next question. Mr. Patzer touched on this.
You like this fixed pricing, but it's not fixed globally, with different pricing in different countries. The pricing seems to be quite high here compared to the United States. Mark Carney sits on your board. You derive, probably, a huge amount of your revenue—although we don't know that—from the United States. You offer a significantly lower rate in the United States, both on the percentage fee of 2.7% versus 2.9% in Canada, and on the fixed transaction fee of five cents versus 30¢. That's quite a difference.
Has Mark Carney ever suggested to Stripe's management that you shouldn't charge more in Canada than in the United States?
Director, Public Policy, Stripe
The fact that our price is different in different jurisdictions reflects a number of matters. It reflects that there might be a different regulatory environment or that the actual network costs might be lower and, like I said earlier in my opening remarks, that in many of the markets you mentioned, 80% to 90% of the fees that we charge go to the issuing bank. Much of that is out of our control, so I wouldn't want you to think that our pricing is just what we say it is in any given market because we deem it to be that. It's the—
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
It's 0.5% in Europe because that's legislated. It's 2.9% in Canada. It's 2.7% in the U.S. It appears that carbon tax Carney is on a board of a company that seems to think it's better to rip off Canadians and charge higher fees in Canada than it does in the United States or Europe.
I am on limited time and, because we haven't been able to get many of the answers that we're seeking, I would like to move a motion.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Mr. Perkins, I'll let you move your motion, but I just remind you that the kinds of names that might be used sometimes for theatrics in the House, I don't appreciate in the committee. Calling someone “carbon tax so on and so forth” is not something I want to entertain at this committee, so please be mindful of that in the future.
Now I'll let you move your motion.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
I will. It just rolls off the tongue so easily now.
I move the following motion::
Given Stripe's unknown profit margins and its refusal to comply with the government's interchange fee reduction plan, the committee order the production of all Stripe board meeting minutes related to the Government of Canada's announcement to reduce credit card fees, balance sheets, cash-flow statements, and income statements since March 2021, broken down by Canada and Stripe's global operations.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
The motion is pertinent to the study that we are doing right now.
I understand that the clerk is circulating it. It's already done.
Thank you, Madam Clerk.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Yes, you can speak to it, and then I'll briefly suspend for members to—
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
I usually give the time to the person moving the motion to present it.
Go ahead, Mr. Perkins.
Conservative
Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS
The reason I move this motion is that the financial adviser to the Prime Minister, who already announced he's going to run for public office for the Liberal Party, is on the board of Stripe; the Minister of Finance made this grandiose announcement that we're doing this great thing for small business and reducing fees when, in fact, one of the prime and growing companies in Canada that provides that process is actually refusing to implement it; and all the while a board member is not only advising and governing the company but is also advising the Prime Minister and then blocking what the Government of Canada wants to do.
The only way we're going to get to the bottom of some of this is to actually know just how profitable Stripe is. The only way to know whether or not its claims that its costs are going up, that it has to charge Canadians more than it does in the United States and Europe, and that the GST somehow hurts it, is for Stripe to be transparent and reveal the documents. As a committee we have the right to ask for the production of documents from witnesses when they've given testimony, and that's what I'm doing here today.
I hope my colleagues will support us in this.
Liberal
Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON
I want to get clarification from Mr. Peters on a comment he made earlier. I believe the comment was that the board of directors has no part to play in decisions related to interchange fees. Is that correct?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Mr. Badawey, we're debating a motion, so I don't think it's appropriate to ask questions of witnesses at this point. This is a committee matter, but you can highlight some of the testimony—
October 24th, 2024 / 10:05 a.m.
Liberal
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound
Given that we have only 10 minutes left, if committee members agree, I will allow the witnesses to go because I don't think we'll resolve this and be done in 10 minutes.
Director, Public Policy, Stripe
Given that the motion pertains to my company, am I able to comment on it?
