Industry Committee on Nov. 25th, 2024

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

We're not actually in the business of naming and shaming those who don't sign on. We do list, for the purpose of consumer—

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I'm sorry, but that's not naming or shaming. That's actually responding to whether people understand whether they're dealing with an entity that's following the code of conduct that's been legislated by Parliament, whether it's mandatory or not mandatory. I don't think that's naming or shaming.

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

No, I completely agree. What I wanted to clarify was that we do list the signatories. Consumers are aware of whether or not the entity they're dealing with is a signatory to the code of conduct.

The reason I'm mentioning it is that I don't actually love the term “voluntary”, because once a code of conduct is signed and you've entered into it, it's a binding code. It is something that we take very seriously and we will actually supervise and respond to any kind of market behaviour that's not in alignment with it.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

If it's mandatory, why do you currently have one corporation that's outside of it?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

They don't actually meet the terms. They're an ATM company, so I'm not sure they are really a company that's outside.

The point is that consumers will know which companies they're dealing with, and they will know if their company is a signatory to the code of conduct. That was the only clarification I wanted to bring.

[Brian Masse, NDP, Windsor West, ON]

I don't think that clarified it, because previous testimony from your colleagues said that there was one company outside the current code of conduct right now. Now you're providing an excuse for that company being outside of the code of conduct. Either they're in, or they're out.

There are mandatory or voluntary codes of conduct. Just because you view it as somebody signing on, that doesn't necessarily make it mandatory that they have to stay in or out. It depends.

[Frank Lofranco]

Let me just correct my previous testimony. The entity that has not signed on to the payment card code does not issue credit cards. Hence, there are no criteria that would cause them to sign on to the code.

My apologies, I had not recalled the fact as to why they were out. They actually wouldn't qualify to be a signatory because they do not issue credit cards in the way that Mastercard, Visa and others that have signed the code do.

I apologize for that error. Hopefully that clarification helps with your question.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, MP Masse.

Mr. Perkins.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses.

When I look at the annual report of your organization, I believe you spent $53 million last year. Is that correct?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

Yes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Is that a parliamentary appropriation?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

No.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Where does it come from?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

With the exception of $5 million, which is from the fiscal frame, the rest is all from participating institutions—from banks.

We're funded externally from the financial framework.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Is it a requirement that they pay?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

Yes.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

The government requires the banks to pay.

There are 27,000 and change, as MP Rempel Garner said, of complaints that were outstanding. Did those complaints all come from the banks, or did they come directly to you?

[Frank Lofranco]

With respect to those complaints, a large majority are reported to us by banks under a prescribed threshold. We call those reportable complaints. We do receive some complaints directly into our consumer information centre. All complaints are responded to, but as an agency, we are not mandated to resolve them.

In the case of banks, we monitor the degree to which complaints are resolved by the bank to the satisfaction of customers and the number of complaints that are not resolved to the satisfaction of the customer. Then the customer has the opportunity to escalate to an external complaint body for an independent review.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

The government puts in $5 million and mandates the banks to put in money, which of course they pass on as a cost to the consumer through higher service fees or whatever, because that's not an altruistic thing they do.

Those 27,000 and change are complaints that came through the bank ombudsman process that you monitor. Is that correct? I'm just trying to figure out whether you're just nothing but a duplication of what the banks already do.

[Jason Bouzanis]

If the committee will allow, Mr. Chair, perhaps I can weigh in and provide some additional clarity.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Please do it quickly. I have limited time.

[Jason Bouzanis]

Yes. I'll just provide some additional clarity.

Within the complaints-handling system, in terms of FCAC's role, of course we oversee the complaints-handling system of financial institutions and the external complaints body. The financial institutions, the federally regulated ones, also report annually to us on the complaints they receive. FCAC receives complaints as well through our consumer information centre.

I'm very familiar with the statistic that was shared earlier. I think it's important to note that of all the complaints FCAC receives directly—those could be calls or correspondence—we engage directly with each Canadian who contacts us. We receive approximately 13,000 contacts a year. Of those, about half are related to complaints.

I should note that a small percentage, approximately 280, are related to areas that FCAC actually oversees. I can say with certainty that everyone who contacts FCAC directly is contacted and replied to, either in writing or over the phone.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Right, but the banks have a process that's required under law with an ombudsman or ombudsperson to resolve the complaints. Do you get paid just to watch those?

[Shereen Benzvy Miller]

We're a regulator. We oversee the system to ensure that they are responding and that consumers are protected. We're a consumer protection agency.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

If they don't, what happens?