Industry Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

If I understand correctly, people already had the set-top boxes and received an increase of $7 per set-top box. In fact, it seems that you had an opportunity to increase costs and that it was written in fine print in the contract.

From the outset, you've been saying that you live in a very competitive environment. I imagine that's the case, and I understand that. There's Bell, Videotron, Telus and so on. The other major players are also present.

To refer to what Mr. Masse asked you earlier, in some markets, if I understand correctly, the service you offered wasn't expensive enough, since your competitors offered services that were more expensive. So you had the necessary margin to increase the price by $7 per set-top box.

Did I understand correctly? Your competitors were asking a higher price, so you had that space to raise your prices.

[Tony Staffieri]

The price we charge on a market-per-market basis will depend on a number of factors, most of which are what the competitive landscape looks like in that particular market and whether we can offer a competitive service that is a value-add to the customer and that more than offsets the costs we have to invest in that particular service. It isn't always necessarily—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Staffieri, I don't want to cut you off and disrespect you.

These people end up having to pay an additional $7, an amount that was obviously not intended at the outset. Isn't that in itself—I don't dare say it's theft, but….

The customers already have their set-top boxes. Then you increase their bills by $7. If I'm not mistaken, the set-top box was included in the expense provided for in the customer's contract in the first place. However, you're adding an amount for a service that's already in place. The cost of providing that service or the set-top box hasn't changed.

Am I wrong in saying that?

[Tony Staffieri]

There are a few things I would say. One is that—and I highlight again—the primary box is already included, for free, in the term package for the content. You indicated that the set-top box is still the same set-top box. There are a number of software upgrades that go into it, which feature functionality that's done remotely. All of that is a cost we incur. A recent example—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you again, Mr. Staffieri.

I've been a Videotron customer for several years. In the region where I live, I don't have a lot of choice anyway, so I'm forced to live with the conditions I'm offered.

Not too long ago, I had a problem with the speed of the Internet connection. The speed of my system didn't seem to match what the company was supposed to offer me. I called Videotron. The service was very good. They increased the capacity of my system and upgraded it without charging me any additional fees. I think it's included in my service. If an update is needed, all the company has to do is press a button to update millions of pieces of equipment at the same time. It's not complicated.

For a while now, you've been telling us that, in certain contracts, or in certain regions of Canada, you have to raise your prices because you're in an even more competitive environment. However, you're increasing your prices in areas where you probably had the opportunity because your competitors are asking a higher price.

Basically, I'm trying to get you to tell us what you do. You raise prices where competition allows, and you don't raise prices where competition doesn't.

[Tony Staffieri]

Sir, perhaps I could just clarify a couple of things. One is that the question you're referring to relates to set-top boxes. Those come at additional costs to us. The example you gave was with respect to Internet speeds that you were paying for and weren't getting with Videotron. When our customers call and they're not getting what they expected in terms of our core service of Internet, which isn't very often, we make sure they get not only the speeds they're paying for but in many cases even more than that. As an industry, we go through what we call “surprise and delight”. We want to over-deliver on customer expectations, and not under-deliver.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Mr. Staffieri, I'm sorry to tell you, but the reason so many customers are asking questions and we're here today to talk to you about it is that there are also Rogers customers who have a serious service and connection problem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Thank you, Mr. Généreux.

Mr. Van Bynen, please go ahead.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I was interested in the comments you made earlier, Mr. Staffieri, about assessing the competitive landscape. My concern is that any time we run into these kinds of difficulties, we're running into marketplaces that are dominated by one or two or three significant players. The examples are in finance, technology, communications, food, banking and insurance.

I guess my concern here, Mr. Staffieri.... In the finance world, an organization called the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada was established. Is there an equivalent of that agency with the telecom industry?

[Tony Staffieri]

In terms of advocacy groups, there are various ones in different parts of the country, if that's your question. There's an association for the telecom industry as well.

I'm not sure if I answered your question. If I didn't, perhaps you could rephrase it, please.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Sure. If I look at the mandate for the Financial Consumer Agency of Canada, this is an agency that I believe the federal government funds with about $5 million. The balance of those costs are paid for by the industry. Their first goal is to “be the national leader in financial consumer protection”. Their second goal is to “strengthen the financial literacy of Canadians for an increasingly digital world”. Their third goal is to “be the authoritative source of Canadian financial consumer information”.

It seems to me that the industry from the finance side of things has agreed to fund a group that protects consumers' interest. Is there a particular group similar to that in your industry that protects the consumer? I'm not talking about a fractured group here and there. Is there a national agency at this point in time?

[Tony Staffieri]

There's not a national agency for telecom the way you describe it for financial services, but there are other areas of regulatory oversight. Certainly, ISED has oversight on spectrum and how it's used and deployed. We've recently been working with them on—

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

I'm sorry, Mr. Staffieri. I have a limitation on time as well.

This is a situation where the industry is actually funding a national agency. Would Rogers be prepared to establish or to contribute to an agency like this, one that's being funded or managed independently for the benefit of consumers? Would Rogers be prepared to do that as one of the industry players? Of course, we'll ask that of Bell as well.

It's pretty straightforward. Would you be prepared to finance an agency that protects the consumer?

[Tony Staffieri]

With regard to consumer legislation, we all need to comply with a number of those today, but ultimately the best outcome for consumers is the competitive landscape. When you look at the telecom sector, we have, on a national basis, four active, well-funded competitors in every market. When you look south of the border—

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

But, Mr. Staffieri, four, to me, is market dominance by four groups. We don't have that competitive element.

I'll assume, from the fact that you didn't respond to my question, that Rogers wouldn't be supporting an agency of this nature for the benefit of their customers.

We recently received a letter from CRTC. They expressed concerns about pricing certainty. What steps is Rogers taking to align its practices with the CRTC's concern about price certainty and the prohibition of unexpected fee increases?

[Tony Staffieri]

There are a couple of things there that you touch on. With respect to base services, whether Internet or wireless services, we make it very clear what the monthly charges are and which ones could be subject to price adjustments.

What you're referring to, I believe, are the additional services that are provided and the fees related to that. As I said, in each of those instances of additional fees, consumers have choice. I can go through a number of examples where they don't want to incur the fee and work through, for example, a self-serve app. That's an alternative as well.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Are you preparing for the potential regulatory processes or safeguards that the CRTC may introduce to limit price changes during contracts following the announced consultations by that regulator?

[Tony Staffieri]

I'm sorry...?

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Is Rogers preparing for potential regulatory processes or safeguards that the CRTC may introduce to limit price changes during contracts following the announced consultations by the regulator?

Has Rogers engaged with the CRTC to offer its perspective or alternative measures that could balance customer protection with business needs?

[Tony Staffieri]

First and foremost, we respect every legislation that impacts us and our customers.

On the particular initiative you're referring to, we have been responding to any requests for information or questions that the CRTC has given to us.

[Tony Van Bynen, Liberal, Newmarket—Aurora, ON]

Mr. Chair, is that my time?

[The Chair, Liberal, Joël Lightbound]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Van Bynen.

MP Patzer, the floor is yours.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for finally appearing at our committee, Mr. Staffieri. I'll direct most of my questions towards you here.

The Liberal government created a smaller, less competitive telecommunications market in Canada when they allowed Rogers to merge with Shaw. Since then, can you please tell this committee how many people who worked for Rogers before no longer work for Rogers, since the takeover in 2023?

[Tony Staffieri]

There are a couple of things I'd like to clarify.

Rogers coming together with Shaw brought more competition to the west. That was—

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Sir, how many jobs were lost? How many people are no longer working for Rogers who were working for Rogers previously? How many people who were brought over from Shaw are no longer working for Rogers since 2023?