Evidence of meeting #23 for Industry, Science and Technology in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was need.

A video is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Mr. Michael MacPherson
Jean-François Champagne  President, Automotive Industries Association of Canada
Aaron Skelton  President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Health Food Association
Matt Poirier  Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters
Trevor McPherson  President and Chief Executive Officer, Mississauga Board of Trade
Jennifer Quaid  Associate Professor and Vice-Dean Research, Civil Law Section, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
Steve Leal  Board of Directors, Automotive Industries Association of Canada

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 23 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Friday, April 8, 2022, the committee is meeting to study competitiveness in the context of small and medium-sized enterprises.

Today's meeting is in hybrid format, with some members in the West Block, in Ottawa, and other participants on Zoom.

Those who are here in Ottawa are familiar with the health rules in effect and must therefore conduct themselves accordingly.

I'm very pleased today to welcome to the committee witnesses who have valiantly and graciously agreed to join us on this magnificent Friday afternoon. I thank them very much for being here.

We have, as an individual, Jennifer Quaid, Associate Professor and Vice-Dean Research, Civil Law Section, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa; from the Automotive Industries Association of Canada, Jean-François Champagne and Steve Leal; from the Canadian Health Food Association, Aaron Skelton, President and Chief Executive Officer; from Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, Matt Poirier; and, lastly, from the Mississauga Board of Trade, Trevor McPherson, President and Chief Executive Officer.

I wish to inform the members who will be asking questions of the fact that Mr. McPherson will have to leave us at 2:00 p.m. Consequently, if you have any questions for him, ask them first.

Without further ado, we will begin with Ms. Quaid.

Ms. Quaid, you have the floor for five minutes.

1:05 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Mr. Michael MacPherson

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair; we're waiting for her to appear.

1:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Okay. I wasn't sure if she was in the room, Mr. Clerk. Thank you for that information.

We'll just wait one minute.

Are Mr. Champagne and Mr. Leal in the room? Yes.

Mr. Champagne and Mr. Leal, I can't see what's happening in the room. This is one of the joys of the hybrid format.

However, we will begin with you, to allow Ms. Quaid to join the meeting.

Gentlemen, the floor is yours for five minutes.

1:05 p.m.

Jean-François Champagne President, Automotive Industries Association of Canada

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I will deliver my remarks in English; however, I am happy to respond in French as well.

Good afternoon, everyone.

My name is Jean-Francois Champagne,

I'm the president of the Automotive Industries Association of Canada or, as we're also very well known, AIA Canada.

I’m joined today by Steve Leal, an AIA board member and the president and CEO of Fix Network, a global leader in collision, glass and mechanical repair services operating over 2,000 points of service worldwide.

AIA represents Canada’s automotive aftermarket industry, an essential service industry that includes the manufacturing of replacement parts, distribution networks, and service and repair shops. We are responsible for keeping Canada’s 26 million vehicles on the road in a safe condition. Our industry almost exclusively comprises small and medium-sized enterprises.

I'd like to focus my comments today on two key issues: competitiveness and labour shortages. While this may be the substance of my remarks, we're happy to answer other questions the committee members may have related to the items being covered in this important study.

Canada’s automotive aftermarket industry punches well above its weight when it comes to its economic impact. We employ nearly half a million Canadians and we contribute $32 billion annually to the economy.

Independent repair shops are in every riding across Canada, with nearly 25,000 facilities across the country. That would compare to about 4,500 automaker-authorized dealerships. These independent shops ensure that Canadians in every community—including small and remote—have reasonable and timely access to essential repair services for their vehicle.

Despite a healthy number of employees working in the sector today, our members are worried about labour shortages and skills shortages. The need for qualified automotive service technicians vastly outpaces the supply. Automotive service technicians are one of the top five most in-demand trades in the country. To keep pace with the current demand for labour, in four years Canada needs to certify 11,000 apprentices.

Further, new technology in vehicles is creating a skills shortage. Modern vehicles are essentially wirelessly connected computers on wheels and are serviced very differently from their predecessors. To service them, automotive tradespeople need new skills and competencies. This is particularly true when it comes to electric vehicles, which require skills related to high-voltage systems and things such as battery removal.

Skills training systems that exist today are not flexible and responsive enough to keep pace with emerging vehicle technology. Industry, with government support, can help raise awareness about how technology is changing the type of work that automotive tradespeople do. This in turn can help attract more students to the industry at a younger age and more people from non-traditional groups, such as women and new Canadians.

Collaboration can also allow for more training that bridges the gap between what workers need, such as up-to-date equipment and tools, and what the current training system offers. AIA has been working with governments and post-secondary institutions to provide this support, and I would be happy to cover this in the Qs and As more specifically.

We have people challenges, but we also have a policy challenge that has yet to be addressed by parliamentarians, and that is providing consumers with the right to repair their vehicles at the auto repair shop of their choice.

Vehicles are increasingly becoming like cellphones, connected wirelessly at all times. Every new vehicle sold in Canada generates copious amounts of data on how the vehicle is performing. Increasingly, the ability to service a vehicle depends on an auto repair shop's having access to this data. Currently, automakers—not vehicle owners—are the owners of the vehicle data. If our industry is to remain competitive, automakers should be required to provide access to this data so that consumers can continue to choose where they get their car serviced. Without intervention, automakers will continue to control the terms through which independent auto repair shops access necessary data. This means potential shop closures, compromising thousands of jobs. For the consumer, it means limited access and higher costs.

The current voluntary agreement between automakers and the aftermarket works well for traditional cars, but not for modern vehicles. Consumers need to be protected by legislation to reflect this new reality. More importantly, you should know that 83% of Canadians agree that automakers should be required by law to share data with independent repair shops.

If you want an example of why we need right to repair legislation in this country, let's look no further than EVs—electric vehicles. The government has made it clear that accelerating EV purchases is a major priority in order to help reduce emissions. Right now, our businesses would struggle to service EVs, as the automakers have made it increasingly difficult for our shops to access the data needed to do so. EV adoption, particularly on the scale desired by government, simply will not happen unless our businesses are able to service these vehicles.

Lawmakers around the world have recognized the importance of the right to repair, including legislation that gives consumers the right to repair their vehicles. Canada cannot afford to be left behind. Government must act quickly to advance right to repair principles through forthcoming legislative efforts. Addressing these issues will allow our small and medium-sized enterprises to remain competitive and to continue to serve as the primary provider of essential services for vehicle repair for Canadians.

Thank you for your time. I'm looking forward to answering your questions.

Thank you.

1:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much for your testimony, Mr. Champagne.

I now give the floor to the Canadian Health Food Association.

We are listening, Mr. Skelton.

1:10 p.m.

Aaron Skelton President and Chief Executive Officer, Canadian Health Food Association

As the president and CEO of the Canadian Health Food Association, I can tell you that our sector and membership are defined by small and medium-sized businesses that are dedicated to providing Canadian customers and consumers with natural, organic wellness products that help to promote their families' health.

Our manufacturers, distributors, wholesalers, importers, and retailers are in almost every community across the country. In total, there are over 2,800 retail stores selling natural health products, organic food, and wellness products in Canada, the vast majority of which are small and medium-sized business owners.

As we know, health is a top priority for Canadians. In this context, a national survey we conducted found that 73% of Canadians used natural health products. I'll let that sink in for members: 73% of your constituents are using our products to promote healthy living. In other words, we are an important part of how Canadians maintain their health and well-being.

While we may be small and medium-sized businesses, collectively natural health products contribute over $3.7 billion to the Canadian economy. Our members are very proud to employ over 55,000 Canadians across this country. I thank you for studying small and medium-sized businesses, as it is critical that parliamentarians understand the challenges our businesses face and the opportunities that lie before us.

Today, I want to highlight two critical federal government files that are of concern to our members. One is a significant missed economic and growth opportunity, and the second is an overburdening regulatory shift.

On the opportunity side, I'd like to highlight the slow movement of the government to recognize CBD as a natural health product. CBD is the part of cannabis that does not get you high, and potentially has a slew of therapeutic benefits.

Since the laudable legislation of recreational cannabis, the sale of CBD products is only through recreational cannabis stores or through medical access with a doctor's note. This makes no sense, as CBD, when sourced from a plant, is natural and, as a raw material, should belong under Canada's established natural health products regulations. It is worth noting that regulating CBD as a natural health product was one of the options identified by the expert committee created to advise the government on how cannabis products should be regulated.

The federal government has been inexplicably stalling on CBD policy, resulting in a missed opportunity to create jobs and growth. This prevents natural health product businesses from capitalizing on the demand for CBD health products and, most importantly, is allowing an illicit market for CBD health products. Canada cannot ignore the economic opportunity presented by a CBD health product market. We urgently need to capitalize on our first mover advantage to the emerging global CBD market.

Clearly, Canadians want safe and effective CBD products, and Canadian companies want to innovate and create jobs by providing a safe and effective product to consumers. It is the government that is standing in the way. In fact, a report from the Institute of Fiscal Studies and Democracy identified clear economic benefits of a CBD health product market.

The second issue is the government proposal for changing how self-care products are regulated. Our members are very concerned by the approach proposed by officials. These changes are being presented to industry with a piecemeal approach that will result in extensive financial costs and disruption to the entire supply chain at a time when the economy needs to recover from the impact of COVID-19.

What are the consequences of this piecemeal approach? They are unnecessary financial strain on small and medium-sized businesses, higher prices on products for healthy families, a decline in product selection, and an increased environmental footprint, all things that I believe we can all agree should be avoided.

Thank you for your time today. I'd be happy to expand on any of these issues during member questions.

1:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much, Mr. Skelton.

We'll now move to Mr. Poirier from Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters.

The floor is yours.

1:15 p.m.

Matt Poirier Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I wish you all a good afternoon.

It's my pleasure to be here on behalf of Canada's 90,000 manufacturers and exporters and our association's 2,500 direct members to discuss the state of Canada's small and medium-sized enterprises.

The manufacturing industry is 10% of Canada's GDP, produces two-thirds of Canada's value-added exports and employs 1.7 million people in high-paying jobs across the country. Our association's members cover all sizes of companies, but the majority of them are SMEs. Actually, most of Canada's manufacturing companies are SMEs.

Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters, or CME, has long been an advocate for addressing SMEs' various challenges. What differentiates CME from other associations, however, is our fundamental belief that the policy of the government should be to grow SMEs into large companies. Current government policy is not designed to achieve this end, but rather to keep SMEs small. In fact, 75% of Canadian manufacturers are small companies with fewer than 10 employees. In the U.S., just 58% of companies have fewer than 10 employees. While all companies start out small—and there's nothing inherently wrong with being small—size does limit a company's ability to attract workers, invest in automation or green transitions, expand production lines and export. SME labour shortages and supply chain disruptions are two areas that illustrate how our disproportionately high rate of small companies acts as a drag on Canada's overall economic competitiveness.

Take labour shortages. Manufacturers big and small are struggling to fill vacancies, and all this is happening even though manufacturing is one of the highest-paying sectors in the country, but the smaller your company and the more in need of specialized labour it is, the bigger the recruiting challenge. In such tight labour markets, not being able to pay top dollar limits you even further. My main message here is that an SME manufacturer struggles more than larger manufacturers in getting the workers they need. This, in turn, restricts their business potential and hurts Canada's competitiveness.

The second challenge is supply chain bottlenecks. Manufacturers are still struggling with disruptions. Again, the smaller your company is, the more pain you feel on the supply chain front. According to a CME survey, nine out of 10 manufacturers report encountering supply chain issues. The added challenge for SME manufacturers with supply chains is their lower position in the pecking order for critical components. We currently have a situation in Canada where a company can have an increase in customer orders and a workforce ready to go but nothing to build because they're waiting on parts, parts their larger global competitors had less trouble securing. Again, because our proportion of SMEs is bigger than in other countries, these problems ripple through the entire economy and hold us back.

I'm happy to expand on these labour and supply chain challenges in more depth in the Q and A, but for now, how do we help alleviate these challenges and grow our SMEs so that they can avoid these structural problems in the future?

First, plug our labour shortage issues through immigration. Pandemic backlogs must be addressed, and we encourage the government to dedicate all the resources required to do that. We also must speed up the introduction of the trusted employer stream to the temporary foreign worker program. In time, we need to aggressively increase our intake targets to 500,000 per year in the economic stream alone. We need workers.

Second, provide financial assistance to manufacturing companies still feeling supply chain disruptions. Because our manufacturing companies are on average smaller than our global peers, we are lower on the priority list when it comes to getting short-supply parts like microchips. We need to correct for this uniquely Canadian problem by bridging our manufacturers through these parts shortages.

Third, make our policy to grow SMEs into larger firms. Tax reforms that cut costs to business and change incentives to reward growth rather than company size are the first step. Implementing a patent box regime to foster commercialization of patents is the next step. Finally, provide more support to SME manufacturers, and accelerate the adoption of automation and green technologies. By increasing the competitiveness and the scale of the manufacturing sector, we can better produce needed materials at home and reduce our reliance on foreign suppliers. While in the short term we must address the many challenges facing SMEs, our long-term strategy must be to grow these companies.

Thank you again for inviting me. I look forward to the discussion.

1:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much, Mr. Poirier.

I'll now move to Mr. McPherson from the Mississauga Board of Trade.

The floor is yours.

1:20 p.m.

Trevor McPherson President and Chief Executive Officer, Mississauga Board of Trade

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and members of the committee.

On behalf of the Mississauga Board of Trade, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you on this very timely study on labour shortages and productivity issues faced by our small and medium-sized enterprises. I would particularly like to acknowledge MP Iqwinder Gaheer for inviting us to be with you today.

Since 1961, the Mississauga Board of Trade has been the voice of business in Mississauga, with close to 1,000 members in virtually every sector of the economy. Mississauga is truly one of the most diversified urban economies in Canada.

The city of Mississauga is home to Canada's largest international airport, Toronto Pearson, and as such contains most airport employment zone businesses, serviced by most of the 400-series highways and both CN and CP rail lines. Mississauga, in many ways, is the goods movement and supply chain capital of southern Ontario, if not Canada as a whole.

Committee members will appreciate that labour challenges have long existed, well before the COVID-19 pandemic, and have simply been exacerbated by this situation. While there is no magic bullet to solve our labour shortages, which exist in both skilled and unskilled labour, the government should work closely with industry to consider new programs around training and supports, as well as worker-focused immigration policies, and work with the provinces, territories, and professional and labour associations to provide for better recognition of foreign-trained credentials and an efficient pathway for newcomers to bring their relevant skills and experience to where they are needed most in the labour market.

Regulatory burdens and bureaucracy also play a role in the difficulty in recruiting and hiring new employees. The Mississauga Board of Trade sponsored a resolution before the Canadian Chamber of Commerce a couple of years ago, calling for an expedited review of the national occupational codes to ensure these match up with the realities of the job market today in Canada and the need to include new categories to keep up with industry demand, technological advancement and an economy in transition.

There has been much in the news lately concerning supply chain issues, both within Canada and around the world. As a major logistics hub in southern Ontario, we know first-hand from our members about this very significant challenge. Some of this, of course, is the marketplace functioning, with impacts on production and transportation of goods stemming from a wide variety of reasons. However, government regulations and how agencies like the CBSA, Health Canada and others operate can have the effect of slowing down effective and efficient goods movement and should be constantly reviewed by the government.

Of course, current levels of inflation are a significant concern for the business community, and small and medium-sized enterprises specifically. For many of these firms, the impacts of the pandemic are far from over, as they struggle with all kinds of cost pressures on their businesses, not to mention the significant levels of debt that has been incurred as a result of the COVID-19 pandemic. The government should look closely at its own fiscal policies to ensure it is not adding to inflationary pressures through the impact that taxes, fees and other charges have on the cost of virtually everything.

We often talk about a competitive Canada that can compete and win in the global economy. There is much truth to this, and Canadian companies are agile and adaptable. At the Mississauga Board of Trade, we promote trade diversification and expose our members to opportunities in markets where Canada has a competitive advantage. Canada's free trade agenda should be applauded and aggressively promoted so that we see more Canadian companies successfully competing with the best in the world.

We would encourage the government to review, modernize and update the Competition Act, the Privacy Act and any other regulations that hinder an open and competitive marketplace or permit frivolous cases to be brought forward by competitors. Together with a competitive tax regime, this would also position Canada to better compete with other developed markets for foreign direct investment, which in turn brings new business opportunities to thousands of small and medium-sized businesses across the country.

There is no question that the federal government stepped up to support small and medium-sized businesses and their workers throughout the COVID-19 pandemic. However, I would be remiss not to emphasize that we are now in the so-called financial long COVID phase of recovery, and government must recognize the significant challenges businesses will undoubtedly face with debt repayment and a prolonged period in returning to pre-COVID-19 business levels in many sectors of the economy.

Again, thank you for the opportunity to address the committee today. I look forward to the question session.

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much, Mr. McPherson.

I welcome Madame Quaid to our committee.

The floor is yours for five minutes.

1:25 p.m.

Dr. Jennifer Quaid Associate Professor and Vice-Dean Research, Civil Law Section, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee.

My name is Jennifer Quaid, and I am an associate professor and vice-dean for research in the Civil Law Section of the University of Ottawa. My fields of expertise are corporate criminal law, competition law, anti-corruption law, business law and general criminal law.

I am very pleased to be appearing before you today to discuss competition law as it relates to SMEs.

I will begin by briefly providing some general competition law background. I'll be switching between English and French during my remarks. I hope that isn't a problem for anyone.

I would like to focus my remarks on the ways in which competition law and policy relate to SMEs. In doing so, I will discuss the current amendments that have been put forth in the first budget implementation act and how these may affect SMEs. I will also touch on the importance of broader reform to competition law and policy and the importance of integrating competition policy into a larger, transversal approach to economic policy.

Competition policy is a part of economic policy and as such should operate in tandem with other policies across departments and agencies in the service of Canadian society as a whole. At present, competition policy, particularly the specific framework of rules that form the body of competition law, the act and its legal interpretations, has developed largely as a distinct field. It has tended to have a small footprint, erring on the side of lesser intervention rather than greater. It is built on a foundation of neoclassical economics, which assumes that in general market capitalism should be left to operate with as little intervention as possible. I am generalizing here. Where an intervention is required, it should be as minimal as possible, to address the worst of anti-competitive effects that could have been or might be caused.

There are a couple of things that characterize competition law that are germane to the work of this committee.

First, the purpose of the act is not competition for competition's sake. The guiding principle is that competition is the best way to generate certain desirable benefits in society. These desirable benefits are identified in section 1.1 of the act. Other experts who have appeared before you have spoken about these benefits. There are four of them: promoting the efficiency and adaptability of the Canadian economy, expanding opportunities for Canadian participation in world markets while at the same time recognizing the role of small and medium-sized enterprises, ensuring an equitable opportunity to participate in the Canadian economy, and providing consumers with competitive prices and products.

There is much debate about the purpose clause and which goals are or are not identified in it. At this critical juncture in the digital transformation of society, the time is right to take a hard look at the purpose clause. Is it, as some have argued, an arbitrary and unworkable collection of aspirations that are largely incompatible? Does it identify too few goals? If so, what other goals should it expressly include? Would it be better to create a single statement oriented to the public interest or, as others have argued, should we just fall back on economic efficiency?

I won't go over what other experts have talked about in terms of the debate over the purpose clause, but I think it's very important to consider the context of SMEs in the larger discussion about competition policy.

The second point that's germane to SMEs in particular is that the Competition Act is a law of general application. This is typical of the drafting style we use in Canada. It is also characteristic of legislation that applies to business entities. However, the practice of using general rules tends to obscure important structural differences and economic realities of SMEs versus larger business entities. The sheer range and variation in models of business organization mean that rules intended to apply equally, because they are the same for everyone, in fact produce profoundly different effects.

I would be happy to expand on this in the question and answer period, in particular in relation to the proposed amendments to Bill C-19.

There is a third crucial point, and it relates to the previous one. The digital transformation is having significant impacts on business practices, business models and corporate growth and innovation strategies.

However, SMEs are experiencing the digital transformation in a different way than large businesses. Without meaning to overgeneralize, it is important to acknowledge that, as in situations of asymmetrical power between consumers and businesses, there is also an imbalance between SMEs and global-scale businesses, particularly those that control online platforms and develop information technologies that are necessary to access e‑commerce and digital markets.

The concentration of power in the hands of a small number of private actors, together with significant deficiencies in the framework governing the various aspects of the economy and society that we characterize as digital—a framework that embraces privacy law, data protection law, interoperability issues, the use of artificial intelligence in a growing number of fields and the impact of social media—create a situation in which access to economic participation may be restricted or subject to conditions that are onerous and even exclusionary for SMEs.

I would like to comment briefly on Bill C‑19. I will do so as quickly as possible, but I'll be happy to address these issues in greater detail if you wish to know more about them.

It is important that you pay particular attention to the amendments being proposed, even though the budget process is quickly moving ahead. These proposals, which could well be adopted without change, will have a major impact on SMEs.

To put it bluntly, there can be no doubt that the proposed amendments to the Competition Act would effect substantive changes. They may be appearing in a budget bill, but they are set forth with the clear aim of starting a reform of business law.

According to the government's statements, division 15 of part 5 of the budget bill is only the first draft of a two-part reform. Division 15 constitutes the preliminary phase. The second phase, for which we do not know the timeline, will be preceded by a public consultation designed to survey every party interested in the role of competition policy in the 21st century, particularly with regard to the digital transformation of the economy and our society.

Of course, I have much more to say on these matters, but I'll stop here with regard to this part. However, I would like to provide a brief enumeration of the amendments proposed in this bill.

Eight changes are here proposed. Four of them are widely expected, since Minister Champagne and Commissioner Boswell have expressly referred to them in public statements in recent months.

The amendments are as follows: the addition of a provision creating an employment-related conspiracy offence; an amendment of the maximum amount of certain fines and administrative monetary penalties; the addition of a clause providing that the use of drip pricing constitutes a false and misleading representation that could result in criminal or civil prosecution; and the creation of a right of private access to the Competition Tribunal to remedy an abuse of dominance.

However, there are four more amendments. Although they are not entirely surprising, we didn't necessarily expect to see them immediately in a budget bill. They are as follows: amendments to sections 78 and 79 respecting abuse of dominance, particularly what constitutes conduct that may result in a proceeding instituted by the Commissioner; the addition of factors to be considered in determining the prevention or appreciable reduction of competition simultaneously affecting the provisions on abuse of dominance, amalgamation and civil collaboration; the addition of a general anti-avoidance provision in the notice of amalgamation process, which may be of less interest to the committee; and amendments to the power to order production of documents under section 11.

According to the government, there is a consensus on most of the proposed amendments, at least among those who have publicly stated an opinion, particularly as part of the consultation that was conducted by Senator Wetston, in which I took part.

This allusion to consensus suggests that the inclusion of these changes in the budget bill should not be of great concern, as few will disagree with them.

I could not disagree more.

While the Competition Act is in need of reform—and urgently—for reasons related to SMEs as well as the economy in general, the budget bill process is unlikely to be conducive to a thoughtful reform, even on those issues that some may consider low-hanging fruit. It is important to modernize the act, but if we do it poorly, without consideration of the bigger picture as well as the technical nuances, we risk simply changing the law without making competition policy any better.

I have two more points, and then I'm finished.

I just want to highlight that there are two modifications in this law that concern me greatly. The first is the creation of the wage-fixing offence. I'm happy to go into detail about why I think it's highly problematic, especially for SMEs. The second is the matter of the penalties that have been modified and the use of scalable penalties but in a very limited fashion. Here, I think there was an opportunity lost to make the act more aware of the differences between sizes in enterprises.

I will close by reiterating the importance of competition policy reform and that we need to do it well. This requires consultation from a plurality of stakeholders, notably owners of small and medium-sized businesses and all the people who are affected by this sector or who participate in this sector of the economy. We need to identify what values matter to us and what principles matter to us. Then we can decide how to change our competition policy. Half measures are simply not going to do it.

Thank you. I remain at your disposal for questions.

1:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much, Ms. Quaid.

To begin the discussion, I now give the floor to Mr. Kram, who has six minutes.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for joining us today.

Mr. McPherson from the Mississauga Board of Trade, I understand that you have to leave early, so I may as well start with you.

I'm paraphrasing here, but in your statement you said that the government should not add to inflation through taxation. Can you expand on that? What particular taxes do you feel contribute the most to inflation?

1:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Mississauga Board of Trade

Trevor McPherson

It was a general statement that as the government is considering any new measures that would impact small business, it should be keenly aware of the costs that would be transferred onto small business. Ultimately, those costs are often transferred onto the end consumer. It wasn't with regard to a specific tax, per se. It was just to be mindful that sometimes there can be unintended consequences.

It's not necessarily tax. It could be regulatory-based as well. The time and resources required to meet new regulations can also add to business costs.

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Okay.

You also spoke about regulatory burden and bureaucracy. You mentioned that your organization wanted a review of job classification categories a few years ago. Could you elaborate on what you'd like to see there?

1:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Mississauga Board of Trade

Trevor McPherson

Right. This is with regard to the transitioning economy and the new areas of jobs and skills that are required in that economy, and that the codes be reflective of the current reality. It's all part and parcel of modernization efforts so that those occupational codes are in line with the jobs we are seeing. Think about the various new elements of the economy, with artificial intelligence and so on. A number of new occupations are increasingly needed across industries.

It's so that those occupational codes, which will inform such things as immigration and so on, are in line with the current realities of the economy.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Okay.

You also mentioned CBSA and how they can sometimes slow down the movement of goods across the border. Could you elaborate on what the CBSA can do better?

1:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Mississauga Board of Trade

Trevor McPherson

I think it's about looking at the processes that the CBSA employs. Sure, resources are also an issue. We're seeing it in terms of passenger movement, but it also affects goods movement. Quite frankly, there's considerable backlog for many of our members who are either importing or exporting goods, with many of these being inputs into the final products that they are putting to market. It's really a notion that we need to look at. Beyond resources, are there areas of duplication and so on within that process?

We've all seen what's happening for a number of reasons at our airports, just as one example, in terms of time delays and so on. The same thing is happening in terms of goods movement with regard to our ports of entry. It's really a comment that we need to look at everything we can to reduce duplication and to make the system as efficient as possible, especially as we're dealing with other pressures, such as staffing issues, etc.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

I believe you meant this as a rhetorical question. You asked, “Are there areas of duplication?” My question is, “Are there?” Did you have any specific examples—if we could just get rid of this, get rid of that, or combine these areas? Do you have any specific, tangible examples that would be beneficial to the committee?

1:40 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Mississauga Board of Trade

Trevor McPherson

Not at this point. I just think it's important that this be considered when reviewing the needs of CBSA and the work that they do. It's not a specific example that I'm bringing to you today.

1:40 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Kram Conservative Regina—Wascana, SK

Thank you very much.

I would like to shift gears to Mr. Poirier from the Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters.

You talked about incentives for automation. Can you expand and elaborate on what incentives you would find helpful for SMEs?

1:40 p.m.

Director, Trade Policy, Canadian Manufacturers and Exporters

Matt Poirier

Yes, in general terms, the incentives—and I'll pick one—could be through the tax code. That would probably be the most helpful. There's a whole suite of programs that currently exist. Most of them focus on the big companies, so it's very challenging for an SME to sort of find a home in those programs. We'd need to expand those—the strategic innovation fund, for example—to have better coverage for the SME market.

Also, the big thing for SMEs is that it's great if the government has a program, but it's very hard for them to know about it. It's not their natural instinct to say, “Gee, I wonder what the government has on offer for me.” The outreach component has to be a major part of that as well.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Joël Lightbound

Thank you very much, Mr. Poirier and Mr. Kram.

I now give the floor to Ms. Lapointe for six minutes.

1:40 p.m.

Liberal

Viviane LaPointe Liberal Sudbury, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Quaid, you said in your opening statement that you had further thoughts to share about wage-fixing, so please go ahead and elaborate on these thoughts with the committee members today.